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 Post subject: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 5th, 2019, 2:43 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 1:36 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Sebago Lake and Moosehead Lake Regions
Curious to no (know) what are the preferred nots (knots) that all use for:

1) connecting backing to the reel;
2) connecting fly line to the backing (if a loop, how are you creating the loop on the backing side);
3) leader to line (again, if the line has a loop and the leader does not, how are creating the loop on the leaders side);
4) tying on a new piece(s) of tippet; &
5) tying flies to the leader.

Also curious to get feedback on how long you go with backing before you replace with new backing?

Feedback and lessons learned welcomed and appreciated....

Have an awesome day!

Thanks,

- ZG - <*((-<


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 5th, 2019, 3:28 pm 
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FFIM-aholic

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 1272
Location: Fairfield, ME
1) connecting backing to the reel;
Arbor Knot - with a name like that ...

2) connecting fly line to the backing (if a loop, how are you creating the loop on the backing side);
Albright Knot - inventor of the Nail Knot - he used the Albright Knot for the backing because it is stronger than the Nail Knot - better to lose the leader than the line.

3) leader to line (again, if the line has a loop and the leader does not, how are creating the loop on the leaders side);
Loop to loop. If the line doesn't have a loop I use the slip on Chinese Fingers or a short length of mono with a Perfection Loop.

4) tying on a new piece(s) of tippet;
Surgeon's Knot

5) tying flies to the leader.
Orvis Knot but I'd take a close look at the Davy Knot if I wasn't so comfortable with the Orvis Knot. For a loop the No-Slip Mono Loop.


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 5th, 2019, 9:33 pm 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: September 28th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 2740
1-Running bowline
2-Flyline loop either factory or a whitlock loop and backing a large enough bowline so that I can reverse my line as about 80% of my lines are double taper.
3-Flyline loop either factory or Whitlock loop and furled leader with a Shorb loop.
4-Tippet to leader Loop Shorb with a surgeons loop
5-Tippet to tippet sections double or triple surgeons knot or once in a while a blood knot
6-Tippet to fly clinch or improved clinch, sometimes an Orvis knot

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The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of something that is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

Sir John Buchan


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 7th, 2019, 12:39 pm 
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Joined: December 5th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5442
Location: Manchester, ME
[quote="ZeroGravity"]Curious to no (know) what are the preferred nots (knots) that all use for:

1) connecting backing to the reel;

Arbor knot. Don't think this matters much, as long as the end of the line doesn't fall off when I start winding. In 40 years of fishing, only a handful of fish have had me into my backing, and none far enough into the backing that the arbor knot would be in play.
2) connecting fly line to the backing (if a loop, how are you creating the loop on the backing side);
Albright. Or a loop to loop, if the fly line has a loop, in which case I put a large perfection loop in the backing--large enough to pass the entire fly line on spool through the loop. Prefer an Albright, though. And this knot does matter. I HATE the "chinese finger" slip on loops. Lost the biggest brown of my life--I know this, because I landed the fish the next day with my fly still in it!--when one of those failed.
3) leader to line (again, if the line has a loop and the leader does not, how are creating the loop on the leaders side);
Loop to loop. I sometimes a whip a loop on the fly line, other times nail knot a permanent, short butt section of leader with a perfection loop at the end.
4) tying on a new piece(s) of tippet; &
Butt of the leader out to about 2X (which means everything for most saltwater fishing), blood knot. 2x and smaller, double surgeons.
5) tying flies to the leader.
Unimproved clinch knot most of the time. Non slip mono loop with streamers, some large nymphs, and most of the time on saltwater.
Also curious to get feedback on how long you go with backing before you replace with new backing?
Can't recall doing this unless I have changed reels or spools. I have an old Pflueger that is now spooled with lead core for trolling. I bet the same backing has been on that reel since I was in college. (I am not recommending this--just saying what I do.)


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 7th, 2019, 1:55 pm 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 4252
Location: Ellsworth
ZeroGravity wrote:
Curious to no (know) what are the preferred nots (knots) that all use for:

1) connecting backing to the reel;
2) connecting fly line to the backing (if a loop, how are you creating the loop on the backing side);
3) leader to line (again, if the line has a loop and the leader does not, how are creating the loop on the leaders side);
4) tying on a new piece(s) of tippet; &
5) tying flies to the leader.

Also curious to get feedback on how long you go with backing before you replace with new backing?

Feedback and lessons learned welcomed and appreciated....

Have an awesome day!

Thanks,

- ZG - <*((-<


Backing to reel: Duncan Loop ( closed) sometimes called a Uni knot
Line to backing: Needle nail knot......superglued
Line to leader: Whitlock Blind Splice, under 7 weight; 7 wt. and higher Needle Nail knot.....superglued
New tippet: 2X or higher: blood knot; 3X on down......double surgeons
Tieing on the fly: Streamers: Non Slip mono loop
Large Nymphs: Non Slip mono loop
Dry flies: Six turn clinch knot ( always Six.......never five or seven)

Backing: Unlike a lot of guys that fish small streams for smallish trout and virtually never see backing....I use 20 pound for seven weights and under.......thirty for eights and over.....and as long as you’re drying it out after fishing good Dacron backing will last as long as you probably own that reel. I don’t take that chance, however, and change it about every ten years or thereabouts

Dave M

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"Fish the West every year. Life is short; and you'll be dead a long time." Chris Hutchins--2009


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 9th, 2019, 9:13 am 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 4252
Location: Ellsworth
3400 members........175 reads.......and only 4 responses. Interesting. Do you all use the same knots we do........or is this a thread that you’re nit interested in?

I know it’s now shotgunning season.......but is everybody out in the field gunning? I would think this would be one of those four page response threads, rather than four responses.

Dave M

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"Fish the West every year. Life is short; and you'll be dead a long time." Chris Hutchins--2009


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 9th, 2019, 9:27 am 
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FFIM Addict
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Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5511
Location: Near the tying bench
I use the Orvis knot on most of my flies, but otherwise follow the method Dave outlines above.

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"You never miss the water until the well runs dry" - traditional blues


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 9th, 2019, 11:17 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 12:00 am
Posts: 102
Location: Plymouth, ME
I closely follow Dave's choices with a few exceptions.

Truth be told, I don't change fly lines that often and stay pretty loyal to reels, so backing-to-reel isn't one I use often. When I do, it's a Duncan loop.
Backing to fly line is nail knot
Fly line to leader used to be a short section of mono with a loop, nail-knotted and secured with pliobond, which would then attach to tapered leaders via the loop. I actually kind of miss that approach but can't bring myself to cut the built-in loop off of a $100 line. So I use the loop to loop with pre-made tapered leaders from Orvis or Rio.
Tippet to leader with a blood knot. I confess to being attracted to the double surgeons but hate to cheat on the blood knot (it occasionally gets jealous for no reason and fails to cinch up, so I try not to piss it off).
Flies are nearly always the clinch knot that Dave describes.

I know I should learn more knots and use them, but I don't. During those nasty February storms, I'll sit and watch Youtube videos of knot-tying instructions endlessly, even following along with scraps of line. All that goes right out the window when I step into the water and see a rising fish.


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 9th, 2019, 8:34 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
Posts: 901
Location: Brunswick
I do a few different things..

Backing to reel... arbor knot.

On my striper set up, 9wt, I use 100 yards of 30 pound backing with 200 yards of 20 pound backing behind it... tied together with a blood knot.

Backing to fly line.. Albright knot
If theres a rear loop I will do a loop to loop tying a double surgeons loop on the backing.

Fly line to leader... if there is a loop, I use it, tying a double surgeons on the leader.
If there is no loop I do a nail knot with super glue... 5 turns with trout gear, 7 turns for stripers.

For tying leaders, which I build my own, I use a blood knot for every part of the it, all the way down to 6x... even 7x at times. 5 turns for 4x and lower, 3 turns for 3x and higher. I just do not like the offset knot of the double surgeons.

Fly to leader... improved clinch, 5 turns on nymphs and dries, non slip loop on streamers and everything for stripers.

Peter

_________________
"A good game fish is too valuable to be caught only once"
Lee Wulff


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 9th, 2019, 8:53 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: May 4th, 2007, 12:00 am
Posts: 139
I just tie a couple granny knots to get the backing onto the reel. I've never seen the backing in freshwater fishing, so I can't imagine having to worry about the knot on the reel arbor.

Albright knot backing to fly line.

Nail knot fly line to leader.

Blood knot for leader sections (yes I still tie my own leaders) down to 4x. Triple surgeon's loop thereafter.

Improved clinch knot for the fly.

Why would I ever need to change my backing, at least in freshwater?


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 9:33 am 
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FFIM-aholic

Joined: August 28th, 2002, 12:00 am
Posts: 1424
Location: Wells, ME
1) connecting backing to the reel: Loop/noose.
2) connecting fly line to the backing: Nail
3) leader to line (again, if the line has a loop and the leader does not, how are creating the loop on the leaders side): Either loop to loop or nail if no loop.
4) tying on a new piece(s) of tippet: double surgeons
5) tying flies to the leader: Depends on the fly; usually improved clinch except when I want more movement, like striper fishing - then a perfection loop.

Also curious to get feedback on how long you go with backing before you replace with new backing: Replace backing?!? I just make sure I thoroughly dry the reels out after usage. Never had an issue (not that the backing sees the light of day very often!).

_________________
May your hope always outweigh your doubts, before this old world finally...punches you out.


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 12th, 2019, 1:38 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: May 3rd, 2010, 6:29 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Western Maine
While we are on the topic perhaps someone can help me with a persistent and frustrating problem? For as long as I have been fly fishing which is over twenty years now I have always used a double surgeons knot to connect tippet material to leader. For some unknown reason the last couple years have seen my frustration levels skyrocket due to the fact that the majority of these knots are breaking immediately while I am testing the knot. It’s not due to worn out/expired material as it happens with brand new tippet material also. I always lubricate the knot with saliva and do my best to tighten all 4 ends of the knot evenly at the same time. Still about 70% of the time it breaks immediately upon testing. I’ve tried numerous solutions including different knots but I must be lacking coordination as I can’t tie a blood knot to save my life. I’m ashamed to admit I even purchased a tool for that purpose (tying blood knots) which for me at least proved to be even more difficult than tying the knot freehand. I have had some (limited success) using the “Orvis leader knot” or a triple surgeons knot both of which seem to work a little better especially in lighter tippet material. Lately I’ve been doing a fair amount of bass fishing and have found that I do not have the same problem with heavier tippet material 2x and up - no breaking and no issues with double surgeons or any other knot. It’s only in the lighter trout tippets and the issue persists whether In using nylon or fluorocarbon. All other knots are trouble free, clinch, improved clinch, Duncan loop, non slip loop etc, No problems with any of those but the damn tippet knots in lighter material are driving me nuts. They never used to and for the life of me I can’t figure out what changed! Any ideas on solving this issue would be MUCH appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Nots? Knots?
PostPosted: October 12th, 2019, 11:20 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 804
Location: Vermont/Rangeley
Maine: tapered leader, blood knot, tippet. Alaska: Airflo leader, barrel swivel, tippet. Pretty simple, effective. Easy.


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