FFIM

FFIM is a non-profit organization devoted to promoting and preserving Maine's fisheries
It is currently February 17th, 2019, 2:14 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 9:55 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Posts: 520
Before we beat each other up too much about Sunday hunting I'd like to say that, as it pertains to the original topic of the drop in interest in youth hunting ( and probably fishing also), I don't think allowing Sunday hunting would make much of a difference.

I spend fishing season at a commercial fishing camp and the average age of customers is approximately 65. Let's face it, for what ever the reason, as each generation passes there seems to be less and less interest in hunting and fishing. I think part of it is that we are turning into a society that requires immediate gratification. A hunter does not always bag or even see their quarry and the same goes for fishing. This is unacceptable to some who consider it a waste of time to be unsuccessful while spending the day hunting or fishing. Another factor is the fact that you may get cold and wet or bitten by insects while you are hunting or fishing. I think some may find this totally unacceptable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 10:16 pm 
Offline
FFIM Addict
User avatar

Joined: October 16th, 2002, 12:00 am
Posts: 5322
Location: Windham
You fellas are arguing Sunday hunting as it was a proposed measure to help youths have more time in the field because Hunter mentioned there isn’t sports on a Sunday. I’ll confirm, there is indeed sports on Sundays. Lots of them. Games, scrimmages, and almost every fall classic tournament from 5 years old up. Sunday hunting won’t help, so let’s put the brakes on that.

The issue a combination of things. Sports in general today. 7 days a week.year round. It’s over the top and all consuming.
Less land to hunt in southern and central Maine.
Liberal gun fearing population increasing in southern Maine, you know where everyone lives.
Lazy people. Netflix is easier that walking outside.

My girls love to bird hunt. I had to pull them both from soccer games to get them up north this fall. As they get older, likely not possible.

These egotistic coaches and organizations make it so the kids don’t have a chance to experience other things. Even if they wanted to hunt, they wouldn’t dare be allowed because it might impact their chances for a scholarship. :D

_________________
"If you want to save a species, simply decide to eat it. Then it will be managed - like chickens, like turkeys, like deer, like Canadian geese. " Uncle Ted


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 13th, 2019, 8:00 am 
Offline
FFIM-aholic

Joined: February 14th, 2007, 1:00 am
Posts: 1460
Location: New Hampshire
My wife and I say this all the time. Why do 8 year olds need to travel around to play soccer? There are 100 of them in our school district. Just play in town. Aside from the rare kid with real talent, and I mean like European football talent, It is because the PARENTS get gratified by it. I remember when American Legion baseball was the pinnacle of youth baseball, now kids are playing travel ball before little league. It isn’t because the kid decided.

Unless there is a legitimate shot of sports paying for education or income, I don’t see a reason why we would jeopardize the other things (foshing, weekends at camp, music lessons, french lessons, dance, gymnastics, etc) for our kids to become single sport athletes at the age of 8.

_________________
"Fishermen...spending their lives in the fields and woods...are often in a more favorable mood for observing her, in the intervals of their pursuits, than philosophers or poets even, who approach her with expectation." - Thoreau


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 13th, 2019, 9:45 am 
Offline
FFIM-aholic

Joined: May 21st, 2004, 12:00 am
Posts: 1047
Location: Westbrook, ME
Another variable to consider is the explosion of the tick population and the numerous nasty diseases associated with such. Ticks were a non issue in my youth (and many of you as well) and now there are populations in all counties with southern/coastal Maine being loaded with them. Real or perceived, there's a fear of sending kids outside for the day. Heck, I stopped spring Turkey hunting due to ticks.

_________________
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 13th, 2019, 10:09 am 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: May 16th, 2013, 10:33 am
Posts: 123
Location: Norridgewock Maine
Interesting thread topic and I think indicative of many things going on in our society. Youth participation in hunting and fishing has dropped in some places or changed in other and for quite a few different reasons I am sure.

1. The shift from a more rural to a more urban society is underway. More kids are growing up in southern Maine where the population density makes some aspects of hunting and fishing a little more difficult. If you look at the northern and eastern part of Maine the median age is quite high compared to the Southern part of the State. People need to go where the jobs are and sometimes those places make it more difficult to access those hobbies and resources. Much of this is nationwide not just in Maine.

2. As some people have written about, sports has gotten insane for kids. I teach and coach high school football and the time commitments that multi-sport athletes are asked to make is nuts, just crazy. We never require kids to be at our summer practices nor hound them about it but some coaches do and we have some kids going to basketball camps all summer, coming to lift with the football team and also playing legion baseball. Which doesnt leave much time for anything else in life. At the High school level for some of these kids it is a choice, but I cant tell you the number of kids who have quit by the time they are a sophomore because they have been forced to play sports since they were a child and are burned out. I had one girl in school who was always behind on school work because she was in competitive dance tournaments every weekend. When I asked her how long she had been doing it she said since she was 3 !!!. obviously a parent choice.

3. The parents are much to blame for the insane year round youth sports drive, travel teams, all star teams, etc. I know some coaches who have kids playing and practicing 6 days a week all summer and the parents lap it up like their kid is going to the Red sox, Patriots or Celtics. mind you these kids are 10, 11 , 12 years old All this means the kids are not out hunting and fishing. If a kid makes a choice at the high school level to be committed to a sport then thats choice. At 9 its not quite the same thing. We need to let them be kids too.

4. the digitization of everything means more kids are inside. and many young parents grew up this way. The concept of just sitting on a creek bank or a stump in the woods is totally foreign to an increasing number of people. A small brook in town that my brothers and I used to fish as kids was always swarming with kids. today its abandoned for the most part but the trout still havent left.

5. That being said there is plenty of hope. I have introduced people to fly fishing and hunting. My sons are 8 and 7 and are learning to fly cast and getting ready to start hunting. but they have grown up around it so they can relate to it. In the end it is all about exposure and fishing , hunting and the outdoors in some parts of the country are competing with a lot of other distractions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 13th, 2019, 1:43 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: June 16th, 2005, 12:00 am
Posts: 182
Location: Greenwood, ME
pushaw wrote:
I agree that seeing fewer kids outside is a problem. And I think Hutch's comment about helping anybody interested to take up hunting and fishing is the right idea -- I know a ton of people who've picked up fishing (and hunting) in their 20s and 30s.

There is one critical difference between Maine and other states that's pertinent to this argument over Sunday hunting and hasn't been raised yet:

Maine has permissive trespass for hunting (and fishing). Other places generally do not. I'd argue this is a big piece of what makes Maine a special place to live.

In Maine, if you're found hunting (or fishing) on somebody else's land, it's not that big a deal legally. In fact, if you're fishing or portaging a canoe containing the fruits of your labors, then you're probably legally allowed to be doing exactly what you're doing. In Colorado, if I'm found fishing or hunting on land I don't have permission to fish or hunt on, regardless of signage or what my excuse is, I run the risk of losing my fishing or hunting license.

In Maine, the default is that you can hunt any piece of empty land in the state, unless it's posted. In other states, the default is that you can only hunt on public lands or private lands where you have permission.

I'd argue that legalizing Sunday hunting would drive many more landowners to post their land against hunting and perhaps convince some to lobby for stricter laws around trespassing while hunting.


I agree with everything said here. I hunt for mule deer with a group of guys in western Nebraska every fall. We're fortunate in that my buddy is friends with a family that owns thousands of acres and for some reason they like me and let me hunt the land too. If I didn't have that connection, there is no way I'd be able to hunt out there without skipping a few mortgage payments. They're always amazed that Maine's permissive rules regarding hunting land and wonder why landowners don't post then lease access to their land.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 13th, 2019, 2:14 pm 
Offline
FFIM Addict

Joined: January 24th, 2002, 1:00 am
Posts: 2352
Location: Lyons, CO
I think the key thing is to just give people (not just kids) exposure.

I live in a relatively outdoors-oriented community. And people pick up doing stuff outside, regardless of where they came from. I have a bunch of coworkers and friends who've all picked up flyfishing (and a few have picked up hunting) in their 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s. Kids are going to do what kids are going to do, and it takes them (boys in particular) a while to figure out that video games are mostly a waste of time and they'd have more fulfillment getting outside with their buddies. Walking around in the woods is not as stimulating as playing video games. But if we expose kids to the idea of it, they will come back to it later in life.

I have 3 kids (girls), ages 3, 6, and 9. And we are seeing the increases in activities running their lives. We have one day a week now when all 5 of us are home in the evening, and our oldest is only 9 AND we try hard to fight against overcommitment. One issue that I see is that many more kids activities are happening in the evening, rather than just immediately after school. At least with school-run programs, the kids are mostly done by 4 or 5. I try hard not to push the kids to do things. Yes, I make them go hiking. Right now, the 9 year old isn't that into fishing anymore, but she wants to learn to row. Meanwhile, the 6 year old is pretty interested in fishing, even though she didn't catch any last year. And the 3 year old is interested, but I haven't really set her loose yet (this year may be it).

I don't hunt, but I do have friends who have repeatedly tried to get me to take a hunter's safety course and get after it. And I was exposed to hunting as a kid. Maybe after my kids are grown, I'll have time to pick up another hobby and I'll pick it up.

The other part of people not participating in hunting and fishing is that it's harder for folks to take longer chunks of time off as a family. People don't go to camp for 3 weeks at a time any more. That's what I'd love to figure out how to give to myself and my kids, the ability to go to camp for weeks at a time, which would include plenty of time spent outside.

The idea that your kid is going to get a college scholarship that's going to help pay for college is worth the price of putting kids on a 6 day a week training regimen is just crazy. For kids of limited means, the best way to get a college scholarship is to be a strong student and a well-rounded student with other interests, be they music/art/sports/volunteering/working, etc. and get into a good school that offers strong financial aid. What I see kids getting out of sports is the ability to work on a team, how to persevere after setbacks, and discipline associated with training and practicing. That's all I want my kids to get out of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 14th, 2019, 8:12 am 
Offline
FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 3349
Location: Vassalboro, Maine
Been thinking about this...I see lots of kids ice fishing- and snowmobiles are almost as common as cell phones--- maybe kids have moved to other things, or maybe WORK. When I started teaching only about 10% of my Seniors had jobs all year...now I think it is near 80%. ALL have cars, all have phones..all have social lives that cost so much and the Opportunity Cost here is probably hunting/fishing and being with family.

On the other hand.... we have a younger teacher here, who when he started at LHS had never hunted, never fished, and never wanted to do either. He went with 3 of us to GLS 10 years ago-and fell in. Twice. Soaked, cold, wet and weary he landed his first salmon- I have the picture. He then went duck hunting with the same group. Couldn't hit a wall from inside a barn. Now has duck dogs- a better shot than I am, and is death walking on deer (with a bow).

He just needed to try it. So...take an ADULT fishing and hunting!

Hutch

_________________
Time to tie- Best wishes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 14th, 2019, 9:06 am 
Offline
FFIM-aholic

Joined: February 14th, 2007, 1:00 am
Posts: 1460
Location: New Hampshire
Hutch,

I believe all your points, because your sample size is much larger than mine, but I am personally VERY surprised by them. I do a lot of interviewing of young adults into my team and adjacent teams, especially now that I'm in the tech space. One of my favorite interview questions is asking about their first job, when and why they had it, and what they loved about it. More than half (at least) look at me like a deer in headlights. I have found VERY few have had jobs, especially not in their teens, none have cars (but live in the city), and in general they all flew closer to the nest than was the norm when I was their age.

Again, going back to parenting... I think we can all teach our kids about hunting, fishing, hiking, skiing, etc, and maybe they like them, maybe they don't.... but the one thing we all MUST instill in them is a work ethic. When a work ethic is engrained, then it makes sense to do things the hard way... I think it explains how we all get out of bed at 230 AM to be the first on the river, why we hike further, row harder, cast farther, and do it the hard way, but also points to the kids who excel, not just in sports, but music, arts, academics, languages, etc... Hunt vs. shop, fly fish vs. video games, sail vs. motor, etc.

I have enjoyed this thread, with 3 young ones, it has been a good reason for reflection.

And finally... in France, I made one true friend (outside of work) who was French. He was the guy who helped me with my sick dog when she was circling the drain. I took him fly fishing there, and he LOVED it, and is still doing it today. His czech wife was a little pissed that the trout were too small to eat, but aside from that, he really dug it. Same for CFR, totally agree, as much as we want to help the future generation, we can also do a lot with our current generation.

_________________
"Fishermen...spending their lives in the fields and woods...are often in a more favorable mood for observing her, in the intervals of their pursuits, than philosophers or poets even, who approach her with expectation." - Thoreau


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 14th, 2019, 11:05 am 
Offline
FFIM Addict
User avatar

Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5414
Location: Near the tying bench
TGIF wrote:
...totally agree, as much as we want to help the future generation, we can also do a lot with our current generation.


Speaking of which, and to answer your earlier question- there are plenty of ducks around the future homestead, but they're mainly larger bodied mallards, blacks, and such. I suspect there are some eiders down your way, too. We'd have to go for a ride to find wood ducks, but I know a few spots. Hungarian partridge are harder to find, not being local. I do have access to pheasant, chukar, and pigeon though (via the dog trainers our dogs work with).

_________________
"You never miss the water until the well runs dry" - traditional blues


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 14th, 2019, 11:28 am 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: April 27th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 770
Hutch wrote:

He just needed to try it. So...take an ADULT fishing and hunting!

Hutch



I'll second this as it worked on me. Fished all my life but never hunted until a good friend of mine I met when I was 29 took me partridge hunting over his dogs. I'm glad he did, as I never looked back. His dogs are passed and I take him hunting over my mine now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: February 14th, 2019, 3:53 pm 
Offline
FFIM-aholic

Joined: February 14th, 2007, 1:00 am
Posts: 1460
Location: New Hampshire
Alright hunter, I think i'm in.... just let me know what i need to do to prep... assuming you bring the expertise and fire power :)

My motivation for shooting ducks or birds would be to eat and tie with them, and I've eaten a lot of canard in my day, so I'll follow your lead on whichever offers either or both of those options.

_________________
"Fishermen...spending their lives in the fields and woods...are often in a more favorable mood for observing her, in the intervals of their pursuits, than philosophers or poets even, who approach her with expectation." - Thoreau


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group