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PostPosted: February 11th, 2019, 10:40 pm 
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"Youth hunting numbers steadily drop" This was the article on the front page of the paper today. My guess is that youth fishing licenses are experiencing the same lack of interest. This has far reaching implications. A drop in youth interest in outdoor sports now, may in the future, lead to a drop in interest in land conservation and preservation programs and less money to do outdoor related jobs and activities that are already lacking funds.
I think waterfront real estate in populated areas will remain popular but real estate prices in more remote areas will to suffer. It's a supply and demand market. In the next 25 years the aging sporting generation will be selling remote hunting and fishing properties in Maine. Many of these properties are off the "electricity grid". I don't see the demand keeping up with the supply. The waterfront properties in more populated areas usually have electricity. It appears that electricity is going to bare minimum on a "must" list of the younger generation. That list will probably include paved roads, cell phone coverage and wy-fi access.

"And the times they are a changing."


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PostPosted: February 11th, 2019, 11:42 pm 
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When your a kid who plays fall sports, you have to choose between sports and hunting. For many- that means hunting is the dropped activity. Allowing Sunday hunting by youth is really about the only work around I could see (as sports are generally not played on Sunday), but that would take a big change in politics here in Maine. I’m still not sure why others can dictate what I can and can’t do on my land on Sundays.

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 7:04 am 
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Hunter wrote:
When your a kid who plays fall sports, you have to choose between sports and hunting. For many- that means hunting is the dropped activity. Allowing Sunday hunting by youth is really about the only work around I could see (as sports are generally not played on Sunday), but that would take a big change in politics here in Maine. I’m still not sure why others can dictate what I can and can’t do on my land on Sundays.


Two very good points brought up here. Is it really in the child's best interest to decide what he should be doing and should the parents sluff their kids off to these not so valuable sports programs that require more time out of the home away from your influence? Sunday hunting? I agree with you on that, but apparently the Maine Professional Guides Assoc, SAM and Maine Bow Hunters don't. Perhaps the three biggest hunting lobbies in Maine don't what it. I'm not sure who they represent.


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 7:34 am 
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I think this is a byproduct of a generation before. I think those numbers were probably down too, and the issue extrapolates down the family tree as it gets wider.

I do think it is sad that more aren’t allowing their kids to experience the outdoors for whatever reason. It doesnt have to be hunting and fishing, but it should be in the fresh air.

I can say this because it applies to me too. I am right in the thick of it with 3 little ones. Kids by default will do what their peer group does, which is unlikely to be hunting and fishing and is likely more electronic. You need to actively engage them and push them into new experiences proactively and then carefully ride the line of keeping it fun and engaging.

Electronics are here to stay, rather than avoiding them or thinking they are a fad, we are just managing them like anything else we don’t love like candy, soda, teeny bobber music, etc.

Anyway, no easy answer on this one... my kids don’t hunt because I don’t and I can’t show them. But they do fish, and they do love our camp who’s electricity is made up of 2 solar panels and 2 car batteries, which is enough to run a couple LEDs and charge a phone.. and my oldest has made me promise we’ll have it forever so she can bring her kids there. She’s 8 years old... hope it is still standing :)

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 8:59 am 
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All......

Sunday hunting is really controversial. As a non-hunter some hunters might say I have no dog in this fight, and they’d be at least partially correct. I understand where Hunter is coming from above, but hunters really have to think long term here.

There Are Way more non-hunters than hunters in Maine. During the hunting season for six days per week all those tens of thousands on non hunters can’t walk or run in the woods......on trail or off. At least now, on Sundays, on nice days in October and November those non hunters can access the woods without fear of getting shot. If Sunday’s are taken away from them you are in danger of turning tens of thousands on those non hunters into anti-hunters by getting pissed off at hunters. Something to think about.

Dave M

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 9:46 am 
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Sunday hunting works all over the country and people of all persuasions can enjoy the woods without 'fear of being shot'. There are certainly some cultural, social, and enforcement hurdles that would need to be overcome. I'm all for prosecuting the crap out of irresponsible idiots out there on both sides of the fence. Non-hunters can enjoy the outdoors safely without hunters pushing them out, and hunters should be able to participate in their activities without interference from non-hunters. Hunters and non-hunters can and should be able to coexist... That's all I have to say about that.



Regarding youth hunters, this decline is a product of overall hunting number decline. In my personal experience and observations / reports throughout the industry, the participation and promotion of youth hunting is huge now and growing. Virtually ALL of my friends and acquaintances whom have children, bring them hunting and shooting regularly. The participation of women and youth female hunters is way up as well. Just look at the vast amount of products and marketing thrown at the youth and female demographic. It's incredible. There was indeed a lost generation of youth hunters 20-40 years ago when the kids were left home, but that has reversed course. Unfortunately, if the young adults today aren't hunting in numbers, they cant introduce their children to it. Within the hunting community as it currently exists, youth participation has never been higher.


...the problem isn't that the kids are stuck on video games and cell phones, its that their loser 'parents' are...


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 10:58 am 
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733SUBDUCKER wrote:
Sunday hunting works all over the country and people of all persuasions can enjoy the woods without 'fear of being shot'. There are certainly some cultural, social, and enforcement hurdles that would need to be overcome. I'm all for prosecuting the crap out of irresponsible idiots out there on both sides of the fence. Non-hunters can enjoy the outdoors safely without hunters pushing them out, and hunters should be able to participate in their activities without interference from non-hunters. Hunters and non-hunters can and should be able to coexist... That's all I have to say about that.



Regarding youth hunters, this decline is a product of overall hunting number decline. In my personal experience and observations / reports throughout the industry, the participation and promotion of youth hunting is huge now and growing. Virtually ALL of my friends and acquaintances whom have children, bring them hunting and shooting regularly. The participation of women and youth female hunters is way up as well. Just look at the vast amount of products and marketing thrown at the youth and female demographic. It's incredible. There was indeed a lost generation of youth hunters 20-40 years ago when the kids were left home, but that has reversed course. Unfortunately, if the young adults today aren't hunting in numbers, they cant introduce their children to it. Within the hunting community as it currently exists, youth participation has never been higher.


...the problem isn't that the kids are stuck on video games and cell phones, its that their loser 'parents' are...


^^^^^^^^^
This is spot on.

For what it's worth TGIF- I'm happy to take you hunting if you're willing to give it a try. There are social aspects to sharing a duck blind or walking a woods road for grouse. I've turned a number of friends into hunters, not by focusing on big game hunts- but by showing them the social aspects of shorter hunts over grouse, woodcock, ducks, and even rabbits. And then there is the time at the range, learning how to shoot. Kennebec Valley TU recently did a Shoot, Tie & Lie at a skeet and trap range up in Sydney and I can tell you- fun was had by all involved (even those that couldn't shoot worth a damn, like me).

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 2:40 pm 
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I played football in the fall from 5th grade up, and duck hunted and shot pheasants at Frye Mountain, and shot my first deer in the 8th grade. I played basketball from the 3rd grade up, rabbit hunted and ice fished most every weekend. I played baseball from Little League through college, and still managed to throw a decent fly and troll for some wonderful fish in central and northern Maine. Why? Because my DAD was involved with most everything I did.
There have always been other distractions for being outdoors. Kids now a days don't have to use their imaginations to build a fort in the woods, or water the lawn before dark to catch night crawlers, or get a whiffle ball game on the corner in the neighborhood. They need uniforms, officials, and travel these days to play a game. The simple things and ways are forever gone these days, because most are too worried about themselves.
Foley's sign off speaks volumes:'The best things in life aren't things"! Damn Straight............
Gussa

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 4:00 pm 
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Thanks you Gussa (Tailing Loop)...most of my flies you cast are DECENT, some are even good! As for your casting---you pass the standard test.

Check the number of people harmed hunting each year against the number hurt skiing/snowmobiling/4 wheeling...hunting is safe for the public as well as the players. That said, I was taken hunting when I was 12- Duck hunting at Billings Pond, and I can tell you EVERY thing about that day. It was in 1972, we stayed at Ricker's camp, and DAD hit a rock in the dark getting to the blind. I got a Black, and missed about 20 times...the hook was set. Hard.

I did NOT fish. Never enjoyed it. Jeff took me fishing one day when I was about 23 years old- it was raining and I couldn't go try golf....some stupid trout came to a Coachman dry and hooked me. Best life changing day of my sporting life.

Doesn't have to be kids---take anyone who is open to hunting and fishing.

Hutch

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 4:43 pm 
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I agree that seeing fewer kids outside is a problem. And I think Hutch's comment about helping anybody interested to take up hunting and fishing is the right idea -- I know a ton of people who've picked up fishing (and hunting) in their 20s and 30s.

There is one critical difference between Maine and other states that's pertinent to this argument over Sunday hunting and hasn't been raised yet:

Maine has permissive trespass for hunting (and fishing). Other places generally do not. I'd argue this is a big piece of what makes Maine a special place to live.

In Maine, if you're found hunting (or fishing) on somebody else's land, it's not that big a deal legally. In fact, if you're fishing or portaging a canoe containing the fruits of your labors, then you're probably legally allowed to be doing exactly what you're doing. In Colorado, if I'm found fishing or hunting on land I don't have permission to fish or hunt on, regardless of signage or what my excuse is, I run the risk of losing my fishing or hunting license.

In Maine, the default is that you can hunt any piece of empty land in the state, unless it's posted. In other states, the default is that you can only hunt on public lands or private lands where you have permission.

I'd argue that legalizing Sunday hunting would drive many more landowners to post their land against hunting and perhaps convince some to lobby for stricter laws around trespassing while hunting.


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 4:46 pm 
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Here's a brief (from a lawyer trying to drum up business) on what happens if you trespass while hunting or fishing in Colorado:

http://longilbert.com/blog-and-updates/ ... violations


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 5:36 pm 
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733subducker wrote" Within the hunting community as it currently exists, youth participation has never been higher."

Deirdre Fleming writer for the Portland Press Herald wrote "Sales of (hunting) licenses to young Mainers have dropped 40% from 17,515 in 2002 to 10,593 in 2017."

I doubt that there has been a significant upswing in youth hunting license sales since 2017 so I think we can consider these numbers accurate. These figures would contradict the statement that youth participation has never been higher. It looks like youth participation in hunting in 2002 was significantly higher than in the present.


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 7:03 pm 
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hatch wrote:
733subducker wrote" Within the hunting community as it currently exists, youth participation has never been higher."

Deirdre Fleming writer for the Portland Press Herald wrote "Sales of (hunting) licenses to young Mainers have dropped 40% from 17,515 in 2002 to 10,593 in 2017."

I doubt that there has been a significant upswing in youth hunting license sales since 2017 so I think we can consider these numbers accurate. These figures would contradict the statement that youth participation has never been higher. It looks like youth participation in hunting in 2002 was significantly higher than in the present.



When I started teaching in the mid-70’s a very large percentage of the boys in my classes hunted.......even in an urban area like Lewiston. By the time I left that school, in 2016 out of 60 to 70 boys in my classes maybe one, or perhaps two, hunted. That’s not a scientific study, but it is evidence.

Subsucker wrote that hunters and non-hunters can coexist. That’s definitely not realistic. It would be nice if it were true, but it isn’t. Ask any serious birder if they can safely go into the woods in October or November on any day except Sunday. Even flyfishers can be in serious danger. As me sometime about my experience going in the Jeep trail on the west shore ofShawmut. Deer hunters with high powered scopedrifles hunting in a patch of woods not 300 yards wide........and children playing at 5he top of the hill. Scary doesn’t begin to describe it........and I’m most assuredly NOT anti-hunting.

Dave M

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 8:22 pm 
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Dave M wrote:
hatch wrote:
733subducker wrote" Within the hunting community as it currently exists, youth participation has never been higher."

Deirdre Fleming writer for the Portland Press Herald wrote "Sales of (hunting) licenses to young Mainers have dropped 40% from 17,515 in 2002 to 10,593 in 2017."

I doubt that there has been a significant upswing in youth hunting license sales since 2017 so I think we can consider these numbers accurate. These figures would contradict the statement that youth participation has never been higher. It looks like youth participation in hunting in 2002 was significantly higher than in the present.



When I started teaching in the mid-70’s a very large percentage of the boys in my classes hunted.......even in an urban area like Lewiston. By the time I left that school, in 2016 out of 60 to 70 boys in my classes maybe one, or perhaps two, hunted. That’s not a scientific study, but it is evidence.

Subsucker wrote that hunters and non-hunters can coexist. That’s definitely not realistic. It would be nice if it were true, but it isn’t. Ask any serious birder if they can safely go into the woods in October or November on any day except Sunday. Even flyfishers can be in serious danger. As me sometime about my experience going in the Jeep trail on the west shore ofShawmut. Deer hunters with high powered scopedrifles hunting in a patch of woods not 300 yards wide........and children playing at 5he top of the hill. Scary doesn’t begin to describe it........and I’m most assuredly NOT anti-hunting.

Dave M


Really Dave? How many of those birders have been injurered? Did your experience at Shawmut actually result in harm to you or other fisherfolk? Your argument makes about as much sense to me as claiming every immigrant, minority, or man in a MAGA hat poses danger to all. There IS a difference between perceived danger and real danger, and hunting does not pose any greater risk than target practice (or any number of other activities perfectly legal to do on Sundays).

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2019, 9:23 pm 
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I would guess that the birder is a bigger nuisance to a hunter, than visa versa... but that is just an assumption based on the fact that no borders were harmed during the encounter.

Hunter, I would probably take you up on that. Any ducks near the new homestead? If you could help me to find drake wood ducks and Hungarian partridge I would be much obliged. :)

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