FFIM

FFIM is a non-profit organization devoted to promoting and preserving Maine's fisheries
It is currently June 17th, 2019, 8:57 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 13th, 2019, 6:24 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Posts: 537
The year 2000 is when the rule book reflected the change in definition relating to flies and fly line and added weight.

1998-99 Maine Dept of Inland fisheries and Wildlife Open Water Fishing Regulations Booklet---Definitions #3" Fly, means a single pointed hook dressed with feathers, hair, thread, tinsel or any similar material to which no additional weights, hook, spinner, spoon, or similar device is added."

definitions #4. "Fly Fishing, means casting upon the water and retrieving in the usual and ordinary manner not more than 3 unbaited artificial flies individually attached to a line to which no extra weight has been added. ( NOTE: It is illegal to troll a fly in waters restricted to fly fishing only.)"

2000-2001 Maine Dept of inland Fisheries and Wildlife fishing rule booklet--- Definitions #3 "Fly means a single pointed hook dressed with feathers hair, thread, tinsel, or any similar material to which no additional hook , spinner, spoon, or similar device has been added."

Definition #4 "Fly Fishing, means casting upon the water and retrieving in a manner in which the weight of the fly line propels the fly. No more than 3 unbaited artificial flies individually attached to a line may be used. (NOTE: It is unlawful to troll a fly in waters restricted to fly fishing only)."

Interestingly the year 2000 brought about changes in the wording of both definitions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 10:14 am 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 677
I still think the easiest thing to do would be to re define FF as if you have a fly rod.. spooled with fly line.. and a leader no greater than 20ft ..even with all the weighted triple tungsten stone flies and double cone head bunny leaches then its F.Fishing it still wouldn't be even remotely close to say ALO where you could cast a CastMaster , or large Mepps spinner 75 feet or 100 feet a crossed a pool or run can you imagine upper dam pool as ALO ... YIKES! a very big difference than say lobbing said stone fly rig 10 feet up stream and dredging the bottom..

why the 20ft leader ..because there are plenty of people that fish a 12-15 even 18ft leader for dries , ..but once you get past 20 feet ..now you are basically Spanish nymphing and trying to chuck a nymph setup 25-30 ft maybe more a crossed the stream with no fly line , I think at that moment you have pushed the limit of reasonable interpretation ??

just my .02 cents


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 10:33 am 
Offline
FFIM-aholic

Joined: October 15th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 1396
Location: Bangor
New York regulates the leader length on the FF stretch of the Salmon River.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 10:59 am 
Offline
FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 4208
Location: Ellsworth
CDC just hit the proverbial nail on the head about why changing FFO regs to ALO wouldn’t work. A competent fly caster in all probability is maxed out for fishing purposes at 60 to 75 feet. Certainly many of us can do better than those distances in a parking lot, but for all practical purposes that’s max fishing distance......much shorter when nymphing.

Put a spin caster on the trestle pool at the EO, and where three or even four fly fishers can work that pool, one spincaster would be it.

Now.......think of GLS. Yikes! Upper Dam pool or Middle Dam pool? Same deal.

Leave FFO Regs as they are, the only change being a ffo person must use a fly rod, fly reel, fly line, and thatsuggestion of no leader longer then 18’ or 20’ feet sounds good. Now, realistically, those regs would preclude Tenkara as there is no fly reel in Tenkara......so perhaps an addendum might be addded for Tenkara.

Dave M

_________________
"Fish the West every year. Life is short; and you'll be dead a long time." Chris Hutchins--2009


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 12:44 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: December 18th, 2012, 12:31 pm
Posts: 165
If the regulation is FFO, then it should go back to no weight added to the fly or the leader. If you’re going to allow weight than it should be ALO single hook. If you’re worried about how far someone can cast than regulate how much weight they can add. Let’s be honest, FFO isn’t about protecting the fishery, it’s about excluding people, people that pay taxes and buy fishing licenses. It would be nice to have everything to ourselves. I know I would like to see a regulation that only allows guys named Tim, with blue eyes, born in 1961 and his guests to be allowed on any Maine water, but we should all get a chance to play.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 2:15 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 677
Tmachetti , you are either the reincarnation of Butch Moore or just a troll ..any reasonable person knows it not about keeping people out ..I could be wrong ,but either way your view is a distorted


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 2:24 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: December 18th, 2012, 12:31 pm
Posts: 165
cdc wrote:
Tmachetti , you are either the reincarnation of Butch Moore or just a troll ..any reasonable person knows it not about keeping people out ..I could be wrong ,but either way your view is a distorted

Wow! insults!? I hope my “distorted view” hasn’t offended anyone as much.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 2:34 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 677
what was the insult ..butch Moore reference ..troll or distorted view..??

really the constitutionality of FFO regulations ??

not craping on you.. just an observation my man

I'm done


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 2:43 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Posts: 537
t marchetti wrote, "Let's be honest, FFO isn't about protecting the fishery ,it's about excluding people, people who pay taxes and buy fishing licenses."

Wow Tim, I went back and reread your statement to make sure I was correctly comprehending what you were saying. You really think that there has been a 100 year long conspiracy in the Maine government to single out waters in the state and set them aside for the private use of fly fishermen? In this period of time, the thousand or so Maine lawmakers who have been involved in the establishment of fishing rules have held the same core belief that fly fishermen deserve their own special waters? In 100 years there has not been an outcry in the Maine outdoor sporting community to put an end to this obvious discrimination?

You have the right to your opinion but I have to respectfully disagree with you. There may be hunting and fishing rules we disagree with and wish to challenge. It is up to us to mount a challenge if this is the case. To think that the purpose of Maine FFO waters is to provide a private fishery for those who enjoy fly fishing is, in my opinion, more than a bit off base

Fishing and hunting rules are designed to support the long term betterment of the outdoor sporting experience by those being governed by those rules. Maybe that goal is not always met. That is why rules get dropped , changed or up dated as those making the decisions believe the Maine outdoor sporting community is best served.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 3:00 pm 
Offline
FFIM Addict
User avatar

Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5478
Location: Near the tying bench
I'm in favor of defining max leader length as a function of rod length- say 2x the rod length or something like that- but then, I don't know many people fishing 20 ft leaders. Defining max leader length would enable a clear line to be drawn on the grey area of did I have enough line out of the rod tip to legally make that cast on FFO water. I also think "fly line" needs a definition in the Maine rules. I could see someone claiming their mono-Euro rig constitutes a fly line, or that a 5 ft section of T-14 attached to the front of a mono running line constitutes a fly line (thinking about the Skagit world of home-constructed lines).

_________________
"You never miss the water until the well runs dry" - traditional blues


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 3:10 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: December 18th, 2012, 12:31 pm
Posts: 165
Hatch, read your posts and you will see you made my point. Why do we fly fishermen deserve a special place to ourselves? I have only put the idea out there for food for thought. I’v been a fly fisherman, fly tyer and rod builder since 1975 and all my fish go back for someone else to catch in whatever way he or she chooses within the law, no matter how “distorted” that law may be.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 3:18 pm 
Offline
FFIM Addict
User avatar

Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5478
Location: Near the tying bench
TMarchetti wrote:
Hatch, read your posts and you will see you made my point. Why do we fly fishermen deserve a special place to ourselves? I have only put the idea out there for food for thought. I’v been a fly fisherman, fly tyer and rod builder since 1975 and all my fish go back for someone else to catch in whatever way he or she chooses within the law, no matter how “distorted” that law may be.


Your argument is flawed in thinking FFO regs are exclusive. They're not. They're not any more exclusive than any other regulation on the books. Tackle restrictions are simply that- tackle restrictions. Anyone can still fish- provided they follow the rules established for a particular water.

_________________
"You never miss the water until the well runs dry" - traditional blues


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 3:27 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: December 18th, 2012, 12:31 pm
Posts: 165
Hunter wrote:
TMarchetti wrote:
Hatch, read your posts and you will see you made my point. Why do we fly fishermen deserve a special place to ourselves? I have only put the idea out there for food for thought. I’v been a fly fisherman, fly tyer and rod builder since 1975 and all my fish go back for someone else to catch in whatever way he or she chooses within the law, no matter how “distorted” that law may be.


Your argument is flawed in thinking FFO regs are exclusive. They're not. They're not any more exclusive than any other regulation on the books. Tackle restrictions are simply that- tackle restrictions. Anyone can still fish- provided they follow the rules established for a particular water.

If all those waters were Spin fishing only would you feel the same way?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 3:53 pm 
Offline
FFIM Addict
User avatar

Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5478
Location: Near the tying bench
TMarchetti wrote:
Hunter wrote:
TMarchetti wrote:
Hatch, read your posts and you will see you made my point. Why do we fly fishermen deserve a special place to ourselves? I have only put the idea out there for food for thought. I’v been a fly fisherman, fly tyer and rod builder since 1975 and all my fish go back for someone else to catch in whatever way he or she chooses within the law, no matter how “distorted” that law may be.


Your argument is flawed in thinking FFO regs are exclusive. They're not. They're not any more exclusive than any other regulation on the books. Tackle restrictions are simply that- tackle restrictions. Anyone can still fish- provided they follow the rules established for a particular water.

If all those waters were Spin fishing only would you feel the same way?


Yes. Kind of like how I feel about bow season vs. gun vs. blackpowder on deer. Different methods- but open to everyone. And certainly within the hunting example- there are areas of which are bow hunting only (no discharge of firearms) or shotgun and bow only, or shotgun, blackpowder and bow only due to various issues.

_________________
"You never miss the water until the well runs dry" - traditional blues


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 14th, 2019, 4:12 pm 
Offline
FFIMer

Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Posts: 537
t marchetti, Your statement " Lets be honest, FFO isn't about protecting the fishery it's about excluding people, people who pay taxes and buy licenses", came across to me as as statement of your beliefs on the subject, not as a topic for "food for thought" or something said "tongue in cheek". That is why I read your post twice. Your following statement "Why do we fly fishermen deserve a special place for ourselves" is also stated in a manner that might make a reader think it's your belief as to the facts of the situation not a hypothetical statement to make a point concerning your true beliefs on the subject. Am I even coming close to getting this right? I tend to take what people say literally. I cant see your body language or hear your tone of voice to help me interpret your meaning.

Communication in this media can easily be misunderstood. I try to be very clear about the points I am trying to make. Misunderstandings between debating parties can be corrected almost immediately in a face to face discussion. Unfortunately that cannot be done here. Sorry if I misinterpreted the points you were trying to make. I guess I am still not totally clear on your beliefs on this topic. Perhaps we all need to be extra clear on our stance and the points we are trying to make while posting here.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group