Okay Cane Cronies, if you stayed with this thread this long, you now get to voice your opinion on taper selection. A few ground rules first, as determined by the maker. The rod will be 6.5 to 8 feet in length. Bamboo is THE rod material in this length range, IMO. Any more than 8 feet, and the weight of bamboo becomes an issue. Bamboo tends to become "clubby" in longer lengths, IMO, especially if the blank is not hollowed (more an that later). As far as a rod shorter than 6.5 feet, although I have built a 6 foot, 2 weight (Medved Bulldog Pup) and a 6.25 foot, 4 weight (Young "Midge") from cane and very much enjoy them both, such rods are again too specialized for this project. The rod will be 4 to 6 weight. Any heavier or lighter will again be too specialized.

I also want to stay with a tried and true taper of a relativeley well-known maker, such as Payne, Young, Dickerson, Garrison, or FE Thomas. The name Ken Crocker was mentioned because of his Maine roots. But, to be honest, few people have name recognition with Mr Crocker and the ultimate goal here is to raise money to benefit young fly fisherman. FE Thomas' Maine roots certainly deserve some consideration.

Personally, I'm leaning towards a progressive taper (gradual drop in taper from butt to tip, very smooth to cast) from Jim Payne. Perhaps a hollow-built Payne 102 (fantastic all-around 8 ft, #5, with reserve power in the butt for distance, yet a delicate tip for fine, upclose presentations) or a Payne 101 (7.5' ft, #5). Two other Payne tapers worth consideration are the Payne 98 (quick actioned 7 ft, #4/5) or a Payne 100 (7.5 ft, #4 with the buttery smooth presentation of dries and wets so often associated with a fine bamboo rod). But I could be convinced otherwise...

I say run with a Payne 102 or a Dickerson 7613.

F.E. Thomas certainly has long roots in Maine, however the company is also still active. http://www.thomasrodco.com/ My personal preference- unless a new F.E. Thomas is being made for personal consumption- it should come from the owner of the Thomas Rod company (Steve Campbell). Steve is pretty good about donating rods to worthy causes/NGO fund raising activities.

Excellent point, Hunter; one I should have considered and one with which there is no argument. Thomas is out. Sorry, Joseph, no exaggerated swelled butt! Of course, many of us already have are own personal swelled butt that follows us around!

BTW, Hunter, what's on your bench these days?

joel

A flamed Paul Young "Driggs River Special".... final planing the tips currently (while moose chili brews quietly on the stove).

This is JUST personal opinion.

Many fisher people start and stay with graphite- the speed and weight of graphite and the "modern-ness" of this type of rod- mixed with the lack of bamboo rods of lower price make most people start and stay with graphite. With this in mind, many graphite fishers believe)wrongly) that bamboo is slow, heavy, and delicate. Of course they would be wrong on all three accounts- but most don't KNOW they are wrong and can't get the chance to find out.

So...I feel this way because this is the path I walked. I started later fishing-almost 25 years old. WHen I bought my first rod- I bought a 71/2 ft 4 wt, because I wanted an easy rod to start with before I went to a 9 footer. I was wrong then, and I was wrong when I looked at bamboo.

In time, I decided to get a bamboo rod- about 25 years after that first rod.

I spoke to David about what I wanted, and he suggested that some bamboo is really a transitional taper from graphite speed to bamboo. Faster than expected, but still clearly bamboo with all the pluses.

We picked-and he made me- a Payne 101. It is a powerful rod and I love it. It helped me know that bamboo has great strength and power- and still delivers the things modern graphite does.

So- now that I own 5 bamboo rods (and was talking about the next one I want just this morning) I have moved from the very fast Payne 101 to a softer FE to a Granger( still fast-a Chase rod) and another DVB.

So- long point to make a short point- a great rod to transition to bamboo from graphite would be a Payne 101. a 5wt 7.5 foot rod is perfect for so much and I would kill to have another.

Hutch

Good suggestion Hutch. Not that I know sh!t about bamboo, but when I win this one, it sounds like this is what I will want it to be. I could be persuaded otherwise though, so any other ideas besides Hunter and Hutch??

Great stuff, Hutch, and right on the mark regarding the transition from graphite to cane.

Until recently, most fisherman's only exposure to bamboo was a unusable cane rod that somebody's father or grandfather brought back from overseas, found covered in dust in an attic. Trying to cast such an abomination was clunky at best. Casting a well-made bamboo rod will typical surprise the hell out of people.

The biggest surprise to me, as someone who fished a 9 ft graphite rod for a lot of years, is how I don't miss tthe extra length even a little. In the right hands, an 8 foot bamboo rod will cast as far as a 9 foot graphite. High-sticking is the only thing gained by a 9 ft rod, IMO, but with the advent of modern day strike indicators, fisherman rarely employ that technique anyway.

BTW, I have no personal experience with the P101, but I've heard nothing but rave reviews. I wonder what hollow-building would do to that taper?

Hunter, nice setting! Add a chilled microbrew and a beautiful girl to tend the chili while you plane away, and you have my idea nirvana! I trust the Driggs will be ready for Superboo...

joel

A Bass pale ale will have to do as that's about all there is for beer in the fridge tonight. Looking out the window, there's no sign of a beautiful girl to stir the chili, but I live in Richmond and frankly- there's a better chance of seeing an Atlantic salmon swim by in the river. The Driggs could be done for SuperBoo, however I'm pretty busy the next few weeks so can't make any promises.

I'm staring at my pile of culms trying to decide on the next rod. The Payne 101 is interesting, as is the Kushner "Formula B", Payne 102, Dickerson 8015... the list goes on. I need something for fishing through the $3 Bridge wind. Unlike most- who seem to focus on the casting characteristics of a particular rod- I try to plan my rod building around the piece of water the rod will be fished on.

Then it'll be back to a small cobble/riffle stream winding through salmon country that's filled with native speckled beauties waiting for a small orange and green bugger to be swung by. This rod isn't going to be for me- but my niece-to-be when she's old enough to take on a hike and try casting. Was thinking of a Garrison 193 or maybe trying a six foot one piece. I'm still taking suggestions on this one.

Then a rod for my father- for fishing meat flies to smallmouth and the occasional brookie on a slightly larger stretch of water. Maybe the Harms taper DVB built a few years back. Then again- I might save that taper for myself and let him pick his own taper.

Joel,
I can never remember the taper but plenty have cast it and would know. That rod that Kat built is one of the smoothest rods I cast at Super Boo. It is a pure joy to cast which would make it a great prize especially if someone new to cane was to win it.

Ron

So--while my plane is en route from Amsterdam to Chicago, and I'm still jetlagged, ole Joel moves ahead on this rod--he's already decided she's going to be a blonde--before I can defend Crocker or FET. I tell you, this guy's really missing out on flamed brunettes big time.

Not that his blondes are unfetching--his Payne 102HB is so comely that I'm tempted to sell my Winston--except the duronze ferrules are just so nice, as are the orangish wraps--. But when it comes to casting, they're hard to decide between--both are light, very precise, and can do pretty much whatever you ask.

I'm partial to 6 weights because they suit me best on the Rapid in the fall. And I'm partial to FETs and Crockers because they have an understated sort of beauty--nicely flamed and browntoned. So we'll leave it at that and Andre and I will keep our Crocker secrets to ourselves.

So--if it's going to be a Payne, I vote for the 102 HB, because it's the most versatile of the bunch--and Joels' HB version is tested, tried, and true--and blonde.

bb

Greetings from a motel in East Syracuse (dodging the storm)...

Just fyi, mine's based on a Garrison 193, 6-ft 9-in 3/4 wt (I had a 4 on it at SuperBoo), not HB, flamed (Garrison might not have approved - grin).

Kat

Ron, Kat neglected to add that the Garrison 193 is the rod she writes about in Changing Planes, which is a great read. After casting Kat's beautiuful rod, I had to make one for myself. I used CSE truncated ferrules on mine (Kat used Tony Larsen's ferrules on hers, which are in the middle between truncated and full length) and mine casts wonderfully with a 3 weight DT. Unlike Kat, mine was blond. As Kat hints, Garrison never flamed his rods! Again, a 3 weight bamboo might be a little too specialized for this project.

Joseph, One of these days I'm gonna get set up to flame rods. I'm thinking about a Young Perfectionist as the first flamer!

Hunter, I can't do anything about the lack of prospective dates in Richmond, but might I suggest a Young Para 15 (wet tip) for dad's bass rod. The rod just plain kicks ass with a 6 weight forward line and bigger flies.

joel

Okay, so work can continue today, it's decision time. It seems the competition is down to a Payne 101 or a Payne 102. I've built the Payne 102 twice and a hollowed version of the same taper six times. I absolutely love the rod. It's always amazing to me that in spite of the introduction of a variable (bamboo) into the equation, the rods have all been very consistent in action.

However, with all the fanfare about the Payne 101, I've been dying to try that taper. Since the maker has the last word and I'd would like to keep the project as interesting as possible, the rod will be a Payne 101, 2 piece, two tip, 7.5', #5, hollowbuilt! I'm guessing it will weigh in at just over 4 ounces, including all hardware. The taper I will use does have a pretty good swell to the butt, so that should make the good professor from Chicago happy!

Thanks for all the input!

Joel,
This should be very educational. I have the concept on planing to get the taper. You throw in a swelled butt(comes natural for some) plus hollow built should all be very interesting. I liken it to installing crown molding in a room with a built in diagonal corner cabinet using all mitered joints.

My fishing buddy has a Thramer Hollow built that is a sweet yet crisp casting rod.

Now that Armageddon came and went I need to find out if the temps will support a fishing foray or if I should just tie some flies and furl some leaders. Leaning towards the latter. Just saw the local conditions for the area I fish temps in mid-20's with wind chills pushing single digits. The furling board is set up.

Ron

Good choice. Now time for node staggering. What stagger pattern did Payne use?