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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 11:23 am 
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Ken B wrote:
Tim and Hunter were hogging the pool...


I would not say we were hogging the pool. I will say that we were saving the better water for the elder statesman of the crew, and he stepped in and capitalized on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 1:39 pm 
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Fair enough Dave! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 7th, 2018, 12:09 am 
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Bruce gave an impromptu lesson on tying the prayer back at one of the claves. As I recall, the head was pretty buggy, and he used a single fiber of wood duck on each side for antenna. The butt ends extended back a little, almost like he was tying grasshopper legs or something.

He also stressed the importance of foam at the eddy, and said with a smile that if there wasn’t much of it on a given day, “we make our own foam.”


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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 8th, 2018, 9:20 am 
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Ken and Matt jogged my memory.

I remembered I also had benefited by way of Bruce's generosity and I still had one. I tucked one of Bruce's flies away for a pattern guide.

Here's a picture of it.

Image

When he gave a few of these to me he just got them out of his stash - nothing special to him just another fly. However, to me as a pattern guide I know two things if I match it. First I know that fly is going to catch fish and second I know I'm tying pretty good.

Here's a video showing a 360-rotation of it if you want a better look.


https://youtu.be/Us52RP3UOcI


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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 9:41 am 
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You guys inspired me to hit the vise yesterday to whip up a dozen of these. Anotherdozen should hold me through this coming season.

Dave M

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 11:00 am 
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Probably beating this pattern to death but the three things that I think about when tying it are:
1) Do a two feather wing with the mahogany colored, white-tipped feather.
2) Use the add that Bruce came up with. Adding the two Woodduck barbs for the antenna. (surprising improvement in visibility)
3) Spikey dubbing. If you look at the rotating video I made of the fly Bruce tied you'll see the dubbing is wicked spikey.

The only dubbing I have that's as spikey is a blend of Hare's Ear and Red Squirrel hairs.

Here's a picture of a hook with three dubbings applied. From left to right they are Hare's Ear, Red Squirrel in the middle and a blend on the right. I use the blend on mine. Actually, I use the blend on almost anything that calls for Hare's Ear.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 12:04 pm 
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Mike
That’s a great way to show a comparison.

Ron

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 5:42 pm 
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Out of curiosity, Mike, which dubbing technique did you use (e.g., touch dubbing, dubbing loop, split thread, etc...)?

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 7:07 pm 
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Hunter, plain ole wet my fingertips with a bit of Irish saliva and twisting it onto the thread using my thumb and forefinger. The Hare's Ear dubs on easily; partly because of the underfur which is easier to dub than guard hairs. But to me (I'm sure the fish don't care) it has more underfur than I like.

The Red Squirrel is harder to dub because it doesn't have much underfur. It makes you want to reach for the wax.

But the blend (as Goldilocks said "is just right") dubs on fairly well with just enough guard hairs to hold bubbles and wiggle around and little enough underfur to keep from matting so much. At least that's what I tell myself when I'm cutting fur off and blending it. I sort of figure blending dubbing is like maintaining reels and such over the winter. It helps winter pass.

The difference in the amount of underfur is subtle but it's there.


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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 9:36 pm 
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Location: Manchester, ME
I don't know about Mike, but I find the saliva is much tackier when properly diluted with a touch of Irish Whisky, preferably Redbreast, but Jameson or even Paddy's will do. And those flies catch a lot more trout.

Re: spiky dubbing, I use a synthetic dubbing from Ligas in various shades of cinnamon brown for must of my prayer, with some fibers off a hare's ear mixed in. It's a lot coarser than most synthetics. I don't think they are still in business, but if they are, let me know where to get my hands on some when I run out.


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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 10th, 2018, 10:31 am 
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Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
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I don't tie prayers much... but this thread made me jot it down on my "to tie list" for the winter, it does look fantastic with those wood duck antennae.

For spikey dubbing I like opossum, I recently picked up some in several colors. Very easy to dub, very spikey and buggy... it has quickly become my favorite type of dubbing.

Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 10th, 2018, 10:56 am 
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I have some Red Squirrel still on the hide . My Hares Ear dubbing isn't nearly as spikey as Mikes. TodaysPrayers will.....apparently....be tied up with red squirrel raked directly from the hide. Thanks Mike.

Dave M

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 10th, 2018, 12:26 pm 
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Mike Holt wrote:
Hunter, plain ole wet my fingertips with a bit of Irish saliva and twisting it onto the thread using my thumb and forefinger. The Hare's Ear dubs on easily; partly because of the underfur which is easier to dub than guard hairs. But to me (I'm sure the fish don't care) it has more underfur than I like.

The Red Squirrel is harder to dub because it doesn't have much underfur. It makes you want to reach for the wax.

But the blend (as Goldilocks said "is just right") dubs on fairly well with just enough guard hairs to hold bubbles and wiggle around and little enough underfur to keep from matting so much. At least that's what I tell myself when I'm cutting fur off and blending it. I sort of figure blending dubbing is like maintaining reels and such over the winter. It helps winter pass.

The difference in the amount of underfur is subtle but it's there.


Thanks Mike. I must have Scottish saliva, as when I do that the guard hairs just don't stand out like that. I've been considering wax/touch dubbing or running a dubbing loop as an alternative. I may have to run an experiment like your photo above using different dubbing techniques.

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 Post subject: Re: Are they the same...
PostPosted: December 10th, 2018, 3:38 pm 
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Here's a video showing where the super short, spiky guard hairs I use come from.
I use all of the dark hair from a Red Squirrel and just the real short, stiff hair off the actual ears of a Hare's Mask and the short, stiff hair right around the eyes and nose of the Hare's Mask. The rest of the Hare's Mask can be trimmed for regular dubbing but that short, spiky stuff goes into a special bag.

Here's a link.
https://youtu.be/VM5NEkcmw9Y


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