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That's it, I'm done...
http://forum.flyfishinginmaine.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23504
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Author:  brian foley [ February 8th, 2020, 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  That's it, I'm done...

I'm tired of feeling violated every time I buy a tapered, knotless flourocarbon leader, so I'm officially swearing off of them - at between 12.50 & 15.00 bux a pop, I can't bring myself to buy them any more, so I'm going to start tying my own. I've always liked my rigs to be as knot & loop-free as possible, but I figure I can live with 1 more knot in my leader than I have after I've added tippet, i.e., 2. I plan on using the standard 60/20/20 (butt/mid-section/tippet) formula. Just because of what I have on hand already my first batch will be comprised of .020", .012" & .007" material - it won't be the perfect taper but unless I plan on competing in a World Dry Fly Casting Championship, I think I'll be just fine...for the price of 3 or 4 knotless leaders one could buy enough Orvis tippet material in the right sizes to assemble around 15 knotted leaders- I like those numbers much better...anyway, I'll let the community know how it goes.
This thought brings me to a question as well: The common dogma is that the diameter of the butt of a leader should be right around 75% of the diameter of the end of the fly line - is anyone here familiar with leaders specifically sized for the various weight fly lines? I'm not. Could it be that with modern tapered fly lines that the tips on all weights of lines are roughly the same? Idunno...tight threads & think spring!

Author:  Tinsnip [ February 8th, 2020, 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Purely by coincidence, I’m reading “Tying and Fishing Soft-Hackled Nymphs” by Allen McGee when I see this post. On page 55 he says:

“The leader butt should be approximately 2/3 the diameter of the fly line. One way to get a rough estimate is to add 16 to your fly line weight. For example, if you were trying to figure out the diameter of the leader butt for a 4 wt. line you would add 16 + 4 getting 20. This means you would use a monofilament with a .20 diameter for coming off the fly line.”

He goes on to say that stiffness of the two materials is important as well and should be similar. And, he provides a bunch of leader formulas from guys like Joe Humphreys that are mad specifically for nymphing and wet flys. It’s a good book/resource.

Good luck! I remember seeing a you tube video of a guy who ties leaders commercially and he uses a toothpick to tie blood knots between all the sections. He can tie them faster than I can tie my shoes!

Author:  Mike Holt [ February 8th, 2020, 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Brian here's an old chart I've used.

Image

Author:  titleguy [ February 10th, 2020, 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

furled leaders....

Author:  Tinsnip [ February 10th, 2020, 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

titleguy wrote:
furled leaders....


Yeah, maybe. I'm directly on the fence. I have some nice ones and was initially in love with the things. The convenience of simply changing tippet material was real nice. Then I hit a dry patch where I wasn't catching anything and decided to blame the furled leaders. Switched 'em out for tapereds from Orvis and caught a few fish, then just never put the furled leaders back on.

Maybe I'll go back...

Author:  titleguy [ February 10th, 2020, 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Tinsnip wrote:
titleguy wrote:
furled leaders....


Yeah, maybe. I'm directly on the fence. I have some nice ones and was initially in love with the things. The convenience of simply changing tippet material was real nice. Then I hit a dry patch where I wasn't catching anything and decided to blame the furled leaders. Switched 'em out for tapereds from Orvis and caught a few fish, then just never put the furled leaders back on.

Maybe I'll go back...


I had one many years ago, back in the KimL, Al and Streamer days of FFO and got away from it. Last year, I purchased a new glass rod and one of my buddies suggested better hook setting through furled leader. I had also purchased them for my saltwater rigs to turn over big flies better. I am now re-sold for dry flies and the aforementioned stripers rods. I don't use for nymphing as my only nymphing now is the dreaded Czech nymphing, but would not use for indicator either.


Foley- for your bushwacking style, you should love them...

Author:  brian foley [ February 11th, 2020, 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Yes, a few years back I was also intrigued by furled leaders - they're fun to fabricate & they're very economical too, but I have drifted back to flourocarbon for several reasons:
I like the invisibility of it.
I believe the stiffness of it transfers energy better.
I like its toughness - not that I ever had a furled leader break on me...
Furled leaders put out a bit of spray - not that I can say I've ever spooked a fish with it...
So for at least the next season, I'll be going with knotted FC leaders...or until all the knots piss me off...Tight Lines!

Author:  Hunter [ February 12th, 2020, 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Brian,

I use knotted leaders as well. I usually buy a two pack of tapered leaders to start the season and then rebuild off of those as the season goes along- only replacing the butt section when the leader gets too fouled or short to work effectively with. I usually just add leader and tippet material throughout the season to achieve the desired performance I'm looking for. and after I've gone through those- I'm usually crafting a whole leader streamside as needed to eek out the remainder of the season. The only time I really don't like knotted leaders is when there is a fair amount of flocculant/algae floating around in the water. I find that stuff sticks to knots quickly, but mainly only encounter such in the early spring or when wading still waters or warmer slow move waters. Good luck. And I agree- $15 for a leader is the industry taking things too far.

Author:  1weight [ February 12th, 2020, 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

" fair amount of flocculant" Isn't that the breakdown in a treatment plant? Where you fishing.

Author:  Mike Holt [ February 12th, 2020, 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

One thing I've always liked about knotted leaders is that the knots do catch junk in the water. If they didn't it would all slide down the leader and pile up on the fly.

Anyway, here's a link to a lot of leader information if you want to go look.

https://flymphforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8491

Author:  Hunter [ February 12th, 2020, 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

1weight wrote:
" fair amount of flocculant" Isn't that the breakdown in a treatment plant? Where you fishing.


Technically, it’s anything floating around in water before it settles out. But, apparently you haven’t fished the Palermo stretch of the Sheepscot, for example.

Author:  Tinsnip [ February 12th, 2020, 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

So... just in case you grow tired of it. Here’s a hand-tied Flouro leader for $5.00.

https://christopherfaveflyfishing.webs. ... ow/3577204

He’s also the guy with the video who ties blood knots with a toothpick in like 30 seconds.

Author:  brian foley [ February 12th, 2020, 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

That's some good info up above!
Aside from the flocculant thing, another thing that has slowed me down on knotted leaders is the fact that I'm not what I'd consider a gifted caster, so when I get in a tight spot and have to start making tricky casts, any extra knots seem to find each other and create some nasty snarls - I'll just have to up my game on several levels...

Author:  Mike Holt [ February 13th, 2020, 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Here's another link to a Tom Rosenbauer podcast. This one is about tippet material and how it's made and tested.

http://orvisffguide.libsyn.com/the-ultimate-tippet-podcast-with-josh-jenkins

I figured I'd post it since it fits the topic so well.

Two quick things I picked up from it are when tying Fluorocarbon and Nylon tippet together it's best to use a Nylon tippet that is two X sizes larger than the Fluorocarbon. The second thing is when you see leader formulas that call for "Hard" tippet material vs. "Soft" tippet material you're pretty safe using this guideline. Tippet material rated by an X-number is "Soft" Nylon and tippet material rated by pound test rather than X size is "Hard" nylon.

Author:  Tinsnip [ February 13th, 2020, 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: That's it, I'm done...

Mike Holt wrote:
... Tippet material rated by an X-number is "Soft" Nylon and tippet material rated by pound test rather than X size is "Hard" nylon.


I did not know that. Cool.

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