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 Post subject: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 9:18 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 677
ok guys and gals ..got a question ,so over the last couple years I have done some experimenting and lots of researching on nymphing styles and leader configurations and all that good stuff ,and you folks on here have helped me tremendously ,and I thank you for that. So over the course of those last couple years I have basically come full circle and have settled back into ..I'll call generic fly fishing with an open mind .


So my question to all is this ,and let me paint the picture your a stream fisherman on a small to medium trout stream .say like south branch of the dead or medium like Prestile and its pocket ,runs ..pools riffles under cuts ..all the things that make up a trout stream ,and if your like me you fish dries, nymphs, emergers ,streamers all of the above and you are not necessarily going to rig up to nymph fish for the day and call it good.I may fish dries in a riffle/run ..then 20 feet down stream want to throw a small wooly bugger into the tail of a small pool ..then 100 feet down stream a real nice run that is perfect for nymphing .. now here is the dilemma , I don't want to change my leader when ever I change my style of fishing ,and yes I do know the benefits of changing up and all that ..been there and done that ,but its just not my style,i like to just pick my way up or down stream and fish on a whim


So I am looking for input on what you would consider a good ,generic multipurpose style/brand/configuration of a leader that I can fish all my methods with little to no alterations and still fish reasonably effective .. so is it just a matter of rigging up with a 7-1/2 ft 4x trout leader and add and subtract as needed or is there more too it ??:huh: I pretty much fish 3 rods, on medium streams I have an 8.5 ft 3wt and an 8.5 4wt ,and for little tiny streams I have my 5'9" 3wt and a 6.6" 3wt..





really appreciate peoples thoughts and input


thanks ..come on spring !!


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 9:46 am 
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FFIM-aholic

Joined: October 15th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 1396
Location: Bangor
I go with 7 1/2' 3x and build from there. I am not a fan of carrying more than one rod anymore unless I am fishing a discrete stretch or river or a single pool (like the Culvert- I bring the arsenal there).


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 9:51 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: December 3rd, 2005, 1:00 am
Posts: 28
This is what I do, and it works well for me.

I keep an old Orvis leader wallet in my vest. I think it was originally made for shooting heads, but who cares. I can cram about a dozen leaders into it and keep them reasonably organized.

At the beginning of the season I buy most of my leaders and tippet.

I buy my dry fly leaders, and they are usually 9' 5x for the most part. I get about 3 packs of 3 of these. I like Rio.

I build my own nymphing leaders from the Aaron Jasper formula for indicator nymphing (20# amnesia, 0.012 Stren, a tippet ring, 4x tippet). I carry about 4 of those.

For good measure I will usually have some shorter 7' leaders and a couple of 12' 6x for the delicate stuff.

I tend to splurge and use fluoro tippet. Maybe it's not worth it but I like the way it performs. I go through 5x tippet like crazy.

I used to build all my own leaders but it's just easier to buy them.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 10:00 am 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 3655
Location: T3R11
The less specialized you are the less effective you will be. If you're happy with that then just fish a 12 foot length of 5X and add a indicator whenever you decide to nymph.

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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 10:27 am 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Ellsworth
If convenience is what you’re after, I imagine the most convenient way is to just leave the loop on your line, buy a looped 7.5 ‘ leader, loop it on, and add whatever tippet you might need. The most convenient, but, I suspect, not the best option performance-wise in most situations.

We all have our methods......they’re mostly all different.......and, for the most part, they all work.

Some of my friends use furled leaders........some use store bought........some tie up their own to their own formulas. I, personally, prefer the latter as it gives me the best performance for any given situation.......and that’s important to me. Opinions vary......as we’d all expect.

Dave M

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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 11:26 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 677
what really got me thinking about this was watching a few Joe Humphrey's video's and he described his leader as "approx. 9-9-1/2 feet down to 3X and to watch him nymph fish with his split shot set up and his mending technics( no indicator just 9ft leader and split shot ) ..I though for a second I was watching my father worm dunking ..instead of waiting for them to eat the worm you set at the slightest touch or twitch ..we all remember worm dunking right ?.. so I tried his method late last year and for my style of fishing as in just wading and making my way up or down stream it worked really well for me !! it just felt real natural to me..so I was looking for that "universal" that would serve all those situations so nymphs ,streamers swinging wets .. now I do still love fishing with my furled leaders for dry's if I know that's all ill be doing.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 11:57 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: May 14th, 2008, 6:49 am
Posts: 110
Location: Winthrop
Just use the furled leader for it all.

When Mike had his shop I was one of his best customers for the Orvis braided leader. Now they have gone way up in price and come with a bunch of Bimini tippets, will not pay 20 bucks for them.
I have changed over to the cutthroat furled leader for 4x - 9' setup. Look at it this way you put on the furled leader and your base length is defined.
Now on the small stream with uneducated fish a 4x may be all you need for the bugger and nymph sections. 5x to the end of the 4x if you need for a dry fly.
Simple and you can get to 12 feet of leader easily, also I have been using 2 or 3x for streamers on the same leader as needed.

Benefit is for beginners they have to add tippet when it gets too short, how many times have you seen guys trying to fish what is essentially a butt section because they didn't know when to add some tippet.

To Dave's comment on the loop connection, I tie the furled leaders on and cut off the loop.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 12:53 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 677
in my experience the furled leaders don't make for good nymphing


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 1:29 pm 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: September 28th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 2709
I go with loop to loop. Furled loop to loop to flyline with a loop to loop tippet for dry. A not too fancy loop to loop short tapered to heavy tippet for streamers. And then a loop to loop nymph leader set-up.
Mistakenly bought some Orvis Bimini twist tippets when buying spools of tippet, I really liked those with my furled leaders which I twist up myself.

Ron

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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 1:55 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: December 18th, 2012, 12:31 pm
Posts: 165
I cut the top 3 1/2 feet off of a tapered 7 1/2 foot 4x leader. Toss the butt section and nail knot the bottom section to my fly line. Then 4-5ft of straight 4x. From there I can build and fish whatever I want, a heavy nymph with a dropper tied off the bend, 5x to a pair of smaller nymphs, 5x to a dry or emerger, a pair of wets....
If I’m nymphing and I want to try a streamer or a wet fly on a certain run, I’ll just tie them to the dropper.
I can adjust this system to meet pretty much any situation if I carry 3x,4x and 5x I use the 3x to repair the butt section as it gets shortened though the season.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 1:56 pm 
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FFIM-aholic

Joined: May 21st, 2004, 12:00 am
Posts: 1052
Location: Westbrook, ME
With the simplicity/flexibility of a single leader comes some sacrifice. It won't excel at everything, but will be okay for most. I'd cut back a 9' 5X leader down to about 4-5' and attach a tippet ring. Then just attach the appropriate leader/tippet material from the ring.

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Last edited by InTheTrees on February 21st, 2019, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 2:19 pm 
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FFIM Addict

Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 3655
Location: T3R11
cdc wrote:
in my experience the furled leaders don't make for good nymphing


That is very true. Ive made and fished furled leader for years but never used them nymphing.
In fact the use of anything tapered is inefficient. A tapered leader of any sort drags in the upper faster current pulling your nymph along faster than the slower bottom current. I use a length of 4 or 5 or 6X, no taper for nymphing.

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You see that dimple way over there? Well I couldn't hit it with a cruise missile.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 2:54 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: May 14th, 2008, 6:49 am
Posts: 110
Location: Winthrop
Under the conditions on that small stream the only thing out of the rod is the leader under most conditions.
Admittedly the springy action of most furled leaders isn't the best for nymphs.
I really like the Cutthroat Furled Leaders as they seem to be less spring like.
Feather crafters has a nylon furled leader that a friend really likes, he seems to do ok fishing a double nymph rig with split shot.
I usually treat the tippet/furled leader junction as a strike indicator.
Which means the tippet is a straight section of whatever length required to get the nymph down.
I find mending a furled leader without disturbing my drift easier than a tapered nylon leader.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 3:42 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 12:00 am
Posts: 71
Location: Plymouth, ME
There's a lot of great ideas in this thread! I started reading with genuine interest since I have convinced myself that leader/tippet usage is a weak part of my fishing knowledge. "I'm bound to get the real scoop here", says I. Alas, after reading all the posts, I may be even more confused than when I started.

The one glimmer of hope I have comes from the comment about Joe Humphries. I attended a weekend workshop given by Joe and Ed Shenk back in the 90s on the Yellow Breeches in PA. He actually showed me how to switch the dry fly on my 9 ft. 5x tapered leader to a nymph. He simply added a split shot. Now it must be said that the streams he fishes in PA are lower and slower than a lot of the bigger rivers around here. But, I've pretty much followed his advice since then.

Still, I can't help but feel that I'm missing out by not being more deliberate with my leader rigging. Maybe this year I'll finally change my ways.


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 Post subject: Re: generic leader ??
PostPosted: February 21st, 2019, 6:54 pm 
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FFIM-aholic

Joined: February 14th, 2007, 1:00 am
Posts: 1518
Location: New Hampshire
I am unsophisticated and unspecialized. In spring and fall I carry two rods. One loaded with a sink tip and one with a right angle nymph rig. Streamers on the sink tip, nymphs on the right angle, and if dries or emerges present themselves I just fish them on the nymph setup. Because I usually have the sink tip, I don’t heavily weight my streamers, and most are classic feather wings, which I can also fish on a 4x piece of tippet if necessary.

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