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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 12:15 am 
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Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Posts: 520
With all this talk about how much lead weight can be successfully catapulted through the air strapped to the end of a fly rod, I have to admit I'm a little taken aback. However, I will go on to say If it's legal where you are fly fishing, knock yourself out. Oops, bad choice of words. I think if the wind is blowing right and you hit yourself in the head while casting some of these rigs, knocking yourself out might be just what happens. Perhaps we can lobby legislators to rush through a bill making helmets mandatory while fly fishing? Hey, maybe I can use my 30.06 reloading station to tie some of these new flies? Hey, can anyone suggest a good workout video? I want to make sure that when spring comes I'm in good enough shape to cast some of these things. Hey , I'm always one to look for multiple uses for items. If you fill your fishing vest with these weighted rigs you can throw it in your pickup bed in the winter to aid with traction in the snow! Never let it be said I don't change with the times!

Just adding a little levity gang. Don't get your knickers in a bunch.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 9:52 am 
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Joined: December 5th, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Manchester, ME
hatch wrote:
I think if the wind is blowing right and you hit yourself in the head while casting some of these rigs, knocking yourself out might be just what happens. P


Don't forget tube flies--very popular in Europe. Tied on metal tubes, in part to get flies that sink better.

I remember reading a magazine piece about salmon fishing in Scotland or Ireland that had the ghillie telling the sport to be careful of his casting or else he would be "tubed bonkers".


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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 10:19 am 
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Jeff Reardon wrote:

Don't forget tube flies--very popular in Europe. Tied on metal tubes, in part to get flies that sink better.



Are they legal, or would tube flies be considered a spinner on FFO waters? I know some have shrink tubing to set the hook into, but many are tied without, and the tube section is free to rotate around the hook.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 10:57 am 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Fairfield, ME
Quote:
Fly (Artificial Fly): A single-pointed hook dressed with feathers, hair, thread, tinsel, or any similar material to which no additional hook, spinner, spoon or similar device is added (Title 12, §10001-26).


Hunter, the way I read the definition no hook - no fly.

So TUBE FLIES aren't flies according to the State of Maine. I don't think I'd fish them on FFO water or let someone I was guiding use one.

Except for a few Gray Ghost tube flies Muzzy gave me all of my tube flies are saltwater ties.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 11:00 am 
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Location: Manchester, ME
TGIF wrote:
I am surprised that those fish skulls aren’t heavier than a tungsten cone.

Aside from weight, what about shape and material... I just picture a spoon, Rapala or wobbler slicing through the air better than a clauser or equal weight. When my son wanted to fish a clauser for stripers on a spinning rod, I had to put a one ounce egg weight above the swivel. Admittedly, it was on a medium action rod, that takes some weight to load. Even then, our range was limited.


Except for surf casting, my spinning was mostly confined to ultra light and light tackle. You can throw surf casting plugs a hellacious long way, much farther than I can cast a fly, but so far nobody is talking about designating FFO beaches, and, as my 10 year old nephew pointed out, most of the trout we catch in Maine are smaller than those lures.

In the range of rods designed to cast 2-8 pound test line and lures from 1/64th to 1/4 ounce--still a big range--my experience was that at the small end, all that really mattered was weight. A 1/32 ounce marabou jig--deadly, essentially a conehead wooly bugger--cast about the same as a 1/32 ounce Panther Martin.

With bigger lures, wind resistance comes into play. The two smallest sizes of Rapala's--a great baitfish pattern--weigh 1/16 ounce. They are bigger and more wind resistant than a spinner or spoon of the same weight, and I couldn't cast them as far. My favorite high water/big river lures were a 1 inch, 1/10 ounce Colorado spoon or a 1.5 inch, 1/6 ounce Thomas spoon. Both were better cast on light vs. ultralight tackle. On my favorite pool on the Deerfield, which Google Earth indicates is 85 feet wide, I could almost cast bank to bank with the heavier one. (Back then, I could not have cast a streamer that far, but I could today with the right rod.) Maybe 50-60 feet with the lighter one. Long casts were rarely an effective way to fish them, because either your lure was quickly swinging in fast current and not getting down to depth, or, if you made a long upstream cast, you couldn't keep in contact with the lure in heavy current. Short casts to pockets behind rocks or deep slots in the middle of fast water were very effective. Just like they are with a weighted sculpin or a nymph rig.

To me, by far the biggest difference between Maine's FFO and ALO regulations is that ALO allows trolling. This is mostly meaningless on moving water--except for creating an perennial rule book dispute over where to draw the FFO/ALO line on the Moose River below Brassua Dam. But it matters a lot on lakes and especially on small ponds. I'd hate to see people trolling some of my favorite small trout ponds. On the other hand, over in NH, you can troll in FFO water. One of my favorite Upper Andro wild trout ponds is across the state line in NH, and while a lifetime of fishing Maine FFO ponds makes me vaguely uneasy when I go in there and see people trolling streamers along the shore, I can't say I've noticed that the trout population has suffered for it. The pond is C+R, as all designated wild trout ponds in NH are. I have always assumed this was an FFO pond, but it turns out it's ALO. I've never seen a spinning rod in there, but it's a place I only fish once every few years.

FWIW, here is NH's "fly fishing" definition, which may be a model for the folks who want a regulation based on fly reels vs. spinning reels.

Fly-fishing: Fishing by trolling or casting with only fly rod, fly reel, and fly line combination with an artificial fly or cast of artificial flies attached, and does not include the use of spinning, spincast, and casting rods and reels and lead core lines.

And is a fly rod not a "casting" rod? If it's not, all those casting instructors need to find a new line of work. :wink: Any definition can be quibbled with--and will be come mid-winter.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 11:07 am 
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Location: Manchester, ME
Mike Holt wrote:
Quote:
Fly (Artificial Fly): A single-pointed hook dressed with feathers, hair, thread, tinsel, or any similar material to which no additional hook, spinner, spoon or similar device is added (Title 12, §10001-26).


Hunter, the way I read the definition no hook - no fly.

So TUBE FLIES aren't flies according to the State of Maine. I don't think I'd fish them on FFO water or let someone I was guiding use one.

Except for a few Gray Ghost tube flies Muzzy gave me all of my tube flies are saltwater ties.


Would it be a fly if a single hook was permanently attached? Say I slip a section of heavy tubing over a #2 8XL streamer hook, and secure it with epoxy or solder behind the eye? Or run a loop wire through the tube to permanently attach the hook and put an "eye" at the head?


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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 11:18 am 
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Jessssus, you can tell its January.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 11:26 am 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Fairfield, ME
:lol: :lol: :lol: You're right dryfly :lol: :lol: :lol:


Quote:
Would it be a fly if a single hook was permanently attached? Say I slip a section of heavy tubing over a #2 8XL streamer hook, and secure it with epoxy or solder behind the eye? Or run a loop wire through the tube to permanently attach the hook and put an "eye" at the head?


I don't know Jeff but it sure as hell wouldn't be a Tube Fly any longer. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 12:01 pm 
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Joined: December 18th, 2012, 12:31 pm
Posts: 163
If we want a law that protects trout, we should start with what is best for the trout. Beyond leaving them alone all together, we can probably all agree that a single barbless hook does the least amount of damage. If that hook is covered in anything other than bait, it should be fine. If we define how heavy the total terminal rig should be, then the type of rod, reel and line doesn’t matter. If unweighted flies are what is best for the fish, then so be it. But, a 6 inch brookie impaled through the eye with a #12 royal coachman isn’t going to care what kind of rod you used to do it.


Last edited by TMarchetti on January 17th, 2019, 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 12:05 pm 
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dryflie wrote:
Jessssus, you can tell its January.


To be fare, I was saving this one for a separate post after things quieted down around here. But since Jeff brought up tube flies, well.... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Legal??
PostPosted: January 16th, 2019, 1:33 pm 
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Joined: October 15th, 2003, 12:00 am
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I found swung tube flies to be very effective at the EO.


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