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PostPosted: September 5th, 2018, 2:24 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2003, 12:00 am
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At least the last time I checked on the thread, it looked like it was heading for a good discussion on the management / abuse of the resource. Too bad it got deleted. I guess we can't risk making Orvis or RRSP upset over a discussion on whats best for the river.


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PostPosted: September 5th, 2018, 4:15 pm 
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Not sure, but the post in question appeared to cross the line into a personal attack on certain individual(s) and/or companies. This isn't really the place for such IMO. I didn't pull the post- but would have if I were a moderator. Nothing good was going to come from a disgruntled guide having a one-sided conversation about another guide or ex-business sponsor.

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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 12:21 pm 
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Joined: August 14th, 2013, 3:22 pm
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Hunter wrote:
Not sure, but the post in question appeared to cross the line into a personal attack on certain individual(s) and/or companies. This isn't really the place for such IMO. I didn't pull the post- but would have if I were a moderator. Nothing good was going to come from a disgruntled guide having a one-sided conversation about another guide or ex-business sponsor.


FYI I was never "sponsored" by Orvis or any other organization or business for that matter. Heck i don't even advertise. I'm not normally one to single anyone out, but once you have become the sole moderator or Orvis's Mag river report, they have singled them self out when they agreed to do it, who else was i supposed to reference? he's the sole author of the report. May be it should say report provided by anonymous, then there's no one to "single out". The resource is all of ours, I don't think is appropriate for any one individual or organization to take such ownership, put out so much real time information, influence and subsequent pressure on a resource that doesn't belong solely to them and belongs to the public. More and more, everyone is becoming about themselves right now, with no foresight. Few think about the future of the resource, they want to make a buck now or get that hero shot. I wrote my concerns are not just a a "disgruntled guide", but also as a maine angler, steward, and local Resident and tax payer of the location of said resource. I put the post up so that it could become more than a one sided discussion, the discussion has to start somewhere, so I put up a post. Yes, it is one sided until a discussion gets going. Which obviously got stopped short. Nothing I said in my post about Orvis or RRFS was false, all fact. I didn't make that stuff up.


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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 2:26 pm 
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CZN,

I have similar issue to you with businesses pushing public resources to benefit their business- but have seen far worse applications than the Orvis reports (realtime social media feeds come to mind pushing the fishing on River Z). I looked at the Orvis page- and frankly didn't think there was much useful information there.

The issue with your post- rather than talk about the issue in broader terms- you made it personal by naming names of people/companies that aren't (and likely won't) be a part of a conversation here. Think of it this way- someone else could be posting a complaint about CZN Guide Service exploiting the resource by putting uninformed anglers over fish, while they had to spend years learning the ropes. Such would be an attack on your business. An alternative approach would be for someone to post a more generalized issue with guides advancing the learning curve, locking down popular spots, etc... - without getting personal. If I were you- I'd be thanking the moderator(s) for keeping you out of a libel suit with one of the named parties.

Best,
Hunter

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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 3:39 pm 
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Hunter wrote:
CZN,

If I were you- I'd be thanking the moderator(s) for keeping you out of a libel suit with one of the named parties.

Best,
Hunter


I must be missing something. I didn't pull these names out of thin air. Its a public report with a comments section, and who it's authored by. like I said previously, they singled themselves out once they took on the task. "Libel suit", that's comical at best, on what grounds? so let me get this straight, every time someone goes on the internet weather its, FB, the news, instagram, a public forum, etc..If you disagree with someone and and post that disagreement, it's grounds for legal action!? wow, a lot of folks better get ready, cause the jails are going to fill up fast if that's the case. Not getting personal?..what's up with the insinuated legal threats? If all guides putting sports over fish are in violation, then the state needs to revoke all licenses effective immediately and start an investigation and class action libel suit that dates all the way back to fly rod crosby.
Best, czn


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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 3:41 pm 
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Hunter wrote:
CZN,

If I were you- I'd be thanking the moderator(s) for keeping you out of a libel suit with one of the named parties.

Best,
Hunter


I must be missing something. I didn't pull these names out of thin air. Its a public report with a comments section, and who it's authored by. like I said previously, they singled themselves out once they took on the task. "Libel suit", that's comical at best, on what grounds? so let me get this straight, every time someone goes on the internet weather its, FB, the news, instagram, a public forum, etc..If you disagree with someone and and post that disagreement, it's grounds for legal action!? wow, a lot of folks better get ready, cause the jails are going to fill up fast if that's the case. Not getting personal?..what's up with the insinuated legal threats? If all guides putting sports over fish are in violation, then the state needs to revoke all licenses effective immediately and start an investigation and class action libel suit that dates all the way back to fly rod crosby.
Best, czn


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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 4:18 pm 
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Quote:
Nothing I said in my post about Orvis or RRFS was false, all fact. I didn't make that stuff up.


Perhaps they are "facts" to you but to most here they are just one person's opinion. Now you are certainly entitled to your opinion regarding your local resource but I felt you overstepped your position by hammering a local business, who I'm sure has his own ''opinion'' about the resource. Like some others here (Maine) and on the internet in general your message is lost under a layer of vitriol. I admire your passion but not your delivery.

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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 5:29 pm 
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Joined: June 16th, 2005, 12:00 am
Posts: 179
Location: Greenwood, ME
I've fished the Magalloway for 19 years. It has always had crowded days and it has always had days when I didn't see another soul (yes, even on some weekends). One shop's very general report, even if weekly, isn't the cause of crowds. Most folks that I run into are up for a weekend once or twice a year and have planned their trips long before reading some Orvis report. Yes, there might be a couple of folks who read the report and drove up for the day. However, that's really not much different than 19 years ago when I heard a report at Aardvark Outfitters and decided to take a shot at fishing it instead of going to fish the Kennebago that weekend.

Where I might be bothered by an online report from a shop or guide service is if it included things like, "stand at pool X" and nymph a "size X Copper John."

This whole discussion reminds me of a decade+ ago when everyone was up in arms about someone posting directions on how to get into the Rapid River. I fished it three times this year and two of those times I didn't see anyone else fishing. The other time was Father's Day and it looked like every fly fishing Dad in Maine got a hall pass for the morning. That's been pretty typical of my experience with the Rapid for the last two decades. But if you took just my Father's Day example you'd think that it was that crowded all the time.

In the end, an online report might send a couple more people up to the river, but the bigger threats to the Magalloway are mismanagement of water flow and bucket biologists.


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PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 7:25 pm 
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Joined: April 8th, 2008, 9:54 am
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Location: Berwick, ME
If folks are concerned about fishing resources bring exploited Individuals on FB is really the problem right now. If you join one of the Maine fishing groups on FB you will see some folks on there needing there ego stroked and posting pics with River named, pool named, and flies.
Give it a couple years and the same folks are then complaining about to many people and bad ethics.


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PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 1:36 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2003, 12:00 am
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C&R wrote:
If folks are concerned about fishing resources bring exploited Individuals on FB is really the problem right now. If you join one of the Maine fishing groups on FB you will see some folks on there needing there ego stroked and posting pics with River named, pool named, and flies.
Give it a couple years and the same folks are then complaining about to many people and bad ethics.


+1


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2018, 10:35 am 
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Joined: August 28th, 2011, 11:58 am
Posts: 5
To conquer with Phish, I fish Mag frequently and have for a long time. It can be busy at times but there are always places to fish. I was there recently and the only person on the river.


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