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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 7:34 pm 
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And how do you come by this knowledge without studies??

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 8:00 pm 
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Softball for you :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 9th, 2018, 7:42 pm 
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From the DIF&W about the Crooked River weir:

Quote:
A fisheries weir allows MDIFW fish biologists to capture fish, gather biological data and then release fish as they migrate upstream. Fish are briefly blocked by the weir, then funneled to a temporary holding area at the weir before being examined and then released upstream of the weir to continue on their spawning migration.


No egg-stripping here. And I imagine the stress on the fish would be far less than being caught and released even once.

Studies like this one are a good thing for the long term protection of the fishery.


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 9th, 2018, 9:44 pm 
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DaveS wrote:
From the DIF&W about the Crooked River weir:

Quote:
A fisheries weir allows MDIFW fish biologists to capture fish, gather biological data and then release fish as they migrate upstream. Fish are briefly blocked by the weir, then funneled to a temporary holding area at the weir before being examined and then released upstream of the weir to continue on their spawning migration.


No egg-stripping here. And I imagine the stress on the fish would be far less than being caught and released even once.

Studies like this one are a good thing for the long term protection of the fishery.


Check the quotes in multiple articles by the fisheries biologist.

He answered every question I had about the practice. He was great to speak with.

Unless plans have changed, their stripping eggs. I hope the plans have changed.

You don’t think that’s a soft press release because of the resistance the department has received from special interest groups and anglers from fly fisherman to lake trollers do you?


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 8:09 am 
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Quote:
Check the quotes in multiple articles by the fisheries biologist.


I'm having trouble finding these articles. The link you posted earlier is three years old (and that plan for 2015 was scrapped). If you have more recent sources with details of an egg-stripping plan, could you post links?


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 8:22 am 
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His link does indicate egg-stripping will take place once every 10-15 years, as the Panther Run egg stripping has declined due to low numbers of fish.
I have no issue with eggs being taken occasionally from a healthy population of native, wild fish. It will keep our stocks elsewhere, somewhat authentic.
Do you realize that the bag limit on Sebago LLS has been increased to two fish? The reason: so much wild salmon production in the Crooked has led to higher numbers and smaller size of Sebago Lake Salmon. I don’t like the 2-fish limit. I think it’s more detrimental than egg-stripping.
Either way, I don’t see any reason to be alarmed with the salmon fishery management in Sebago, other than how to deal with Pike.

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 12:01 pm 
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Location: Manchester, ME
My memory when this was first proposed (2 years ago?) was that one possible use of the weir would be to collect eggs or milt, but there were no plans for that at that time.

I checked with Jim Pellerin, the Regional Biologist in Region A about that this morning, and he confirmed that there are no current plans to strip eggs or milt. DIFW is hoping to get some data on genetics, and assess how different the fish spawning in the Crooked may be from the hatchery broodstock collected at Panther Run. If there are differences, there might be in interest in future years of collecting milt or eggs on the Crooked.

But to re-emphasize, no current plans for that.

I confess that I have some concern about taking milt or eggs from Crooked River spawners, and would want to know a lot more about how many fish would be impacted and what impact that would have on wild reproduction. On the other hand, my understanding is the current stocking on Sebago is primarily for providing brood stock that return to Panther Run where they can be collected and the eggs and milt used to support hatchery efforts on other Maine waters. It might be possible to end Sebago stocking altogether if other egg collection sites could be used instead.

I'm sure that would be controversial, too . . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 6:14 pm 
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I would love to see the stocking on Sebago end... I would think that SHOULD be the goal of IF&W, but I'm sure it is not. I have spent a lot of time trolling Sebago over the past 6 or 7 years, and out of all the salmon I have caught and released only 1 of them was stocked. Increase the limit on lake trout and lower it on salmon...

Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 6:40 pm 
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maineangler wrote:
His link does indicate egg-stripping will take place once every 10-15 years, as the Panther Run egg stripping has declined due to low numbers of fish.
I have no issue with eggs being taken occasionally from a healthy population of native, wild fish. It will keep our stocks elsewhere, somewhat authentic.
Do you realize that the bag limit on Sebago LLS has been increased to two fish? The reason: so much wild salmon production in the Crooked has led to higher numbers and smaller size of Sebago Lake Salmon. I don’t like the 2-fish limit. I think it’s more detrimental than egg-stripping.
Either way, I don’t see any reason to be alarmed with the salmon fishery management in Sebago, other than how to deal with Pike.



Maineangler- I am not a fan of the two fish limit either. What is confusing to me is why we have a slot on lakers? We aren’t managing the lake for Lakers but there is a slot protecting them.

Dave- I only have the information available to me. A couple articles from 2015 and 2016. I attended town hall meetings. At that time stripping was on the table. Last year the man power was not available to run the weir. This year the man power is available and the weir shows up.

It would be great to have seen a refreshed plan to educate the community on what data we are seeking and why.

Explanations were vague at those meetings and the state hasn’t always made great decisions with the resource. (See Stu Deroche’s decision to introduce togue in the lake)

Jeff Reardon- thank you for the update. Good to hear this year there won’t be stripping.


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 7:19 pm 
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I wonder the same about the slot for lake trout.
Two-fish bag for salmon definitely should include not more than one over 20”. Even as it seems the bullseye for nice Sebago Salmon is 19”.

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 7:45 pm 
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Perhaps the big togue are cannibalistic as well as desirable?


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 10th, 2018, 8:26 pm 
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I've sat in on several presentations about the Sebago togue situation. The theory behind the current management strategy comes from some western lakes, where high harvest of smaller younger lake trout leads to a population dominated by larger, older lake trout that shift their diet to different bait fish. The thought on Sebago is that this would reduce pressure of smelts, and perhaps also have large lake trout consuming small ones.

In the last few years, a tremendous amount of research into Sebago's togue population has been done. Anyone who has not seen Jim Pellerin's presentation of that project should. You may not agree with the theory, but Jim is working hard to monitor the situation so they can assess whether the strategy is working.

They tweaked the slot limit a bit this year to allow more harvest of (somewhat) larger togue. Time will tell if that works. One of the take home messages from Jim, though, is that many of the small togue are in very deep habitat where they all-but-inaccessible to open water anglers, and that many of the togue fisherman are targeting other parts of the lake where larger togue are more common.


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 11th, 2018, 10:03 am 
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Will be interesting to see the results from the new project and I will be following closely. Would be nice to stop the salmon stocking altogether if the reasoning was it was only continuing for stocking in other places.

As for the togue, and the regulations, I hope there will be some definitive results that support the salmon. I have zero background in biology and know nothing on the science behind what is occurring out there which is a big point, but it doesn’t make sense to me.

I can’t even estimate the hours I spend out there and have over the last 10-12 years fishing and listening to anglers, but the last couple years the amount of tiny togue has exploded. Like 8-12 inches. They are everywhere and the bigger fish are void. Hope creal surveys show this.

It’s sad when a 4 pounder wins a 2 day togue tournament.....

Jeff R. - I thought I read that the big togue numbers increased as the depth did. Less fish, but bigger. Small togue throughout as they are more resilient to warmer temps. Maybe I’m wrong.

Salmon fishing as steady declined on my boat over the years. Togue numbers are up.

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 11th, 2018, 11:50 am 
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Formerly Larvae wrote:
Salmon fishing as steady declined on my boat over the years. Togue numbers are up.


Hey fisherman formerly known as Larvae,

Do you you keep a written log, or is that observation based upon perspective? The reason I ask- sat through a discussion at a Canadian salmon club earlier this fall where members of the club were discussing the status of this years catch-to-date. Opinion verses what the tale of the camp log book. While the opinion of several of the members was that the fishing had been poor this year due to the summer heat, the tale of the logbook showed that the catch at the camp was actually above the running average. Despite the camp having closed (unusual) for several weeks due to angling restrictions related to warm water, those fishing during the remainder of the season had actually done well.

What I'm getting at is that volunteer logbook data is very important for lake and pond fishery management. If you're not keeping track of what you catch- you might consider it. A written record tells no lies if prepared in honesty and is useful for supporting comments, should you choose to comment on a fishing regs change proposal down the road.

Best,
Hunter

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 11th, 2018, 12:13 pm 
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Hunter wrote:
Formerly Larvae wrote:
Salmon fishing as steady declined on my boat over the years. Togue numbers are up.


Hey fisherman formerly known as Larvae,

Do you you keep a written log, or is that observation based upon perspective? The reason I ask- sat through a discussion at a Canadian salmon club earlier this fall where members of the club were discussing the status of this years catch-to-date. Opinion verses what the tale of the camp log book. While the opinion of several of the members was that the fishing had been poor this year due to the summer heat, the tale of the logbook showed that the catch at the camp was actually above the running average. Despite the camp having closed (unusual) for several weeks due to angling restrictions related to warm water, those fishing during the remainder of the season had actually done well.

What I'm getting at is that volunteer logbook data is very important for lake and pond fishery management. If you're not keeping track of what you catch- you might consider it. A written record tells no lies if prepared in honesty and is useful for supporting comments, should you choose to comment on a fishing regs change proposal down the road.

Best,
Hunter


Good point and I can see the variances between reality and perception, similar to say how people feel about winters and snow fall. I have historically kept a log for inland fisheries on and off. I am a picture guy especially with my kids, so use that as a basis, talking to people at my marina, on the water, and biologist and wardens.

It might not be a precise science, but everyone I have been talking with this year is saying “I have never ever seen so many small lake trout, like really small”.

As for salmon, i have a decade of pictures of respectable salmon here, they just don’t have the girth as in the past. Look thin and malnourished a lot. Bait itself doesn’t show as in years past. I could chase bait schools of smelt all day, now I might go a week without finding much of anything.

Small sample size with my experience and I have no formal training in fisheries, just Sebago isn’t what it used to be and I’m not sure many would disagree.

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