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 Post subject: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: August 21st, 2018, 7:32 pm 
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Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
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Saw on Facebook that IF&W installed a weir on the Crooked.... I thought that this got shot down, apparently not. I'm not a huge fan of it, seems like a lot of extra stress on fish that are already pretty stressed out. Anyone know if there was any long term impact on the fisheries where other weirs were used?

https://www.facebook.com/68982973608/po ... 989293609/

Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: August 21st, 2018, 10:11 pm 
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I can't present any scientific data as to stress from fish weirs, but I can say that fish weirs date back thousands of years without eradicating fish populations. I think mishandling fish, poor catch and release practices, climate change, development, culvert failure, indifference to environmental regulation rollbacks ,etc.,etc, pose a far greater risk to fish populations than temporary weirs for data collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2018, 6:54 am 
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I don’t see a problem with this, and the data collected will be very interesting. Will such info be available for public review? I would love to see what they are able to record.
The only thing I dislike is the location!! Prime...

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2018, 11:32 am 
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I'm sure things will be fine.... after all the Crooked and Sebago are an island of good in a sea of mismanagement by IF&W. The numbers of native/wild salmon there are astonishing given how decimated there were decades ago.

I just don't want some DB posted up with a fly rod in the first pool above the weir..... I'd love to see the sections above and below closed to fishing while the weir is in place. Maybe they have done that, but I didn't see any mention of it in the article.

Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2018, 12:09 pm 
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I see a lot of positives with this project. The department is gathering data on a wild population. Data is never a bad thing, as long as data collection doesn't negatively impact the resource. They've working with volunteers to monitor the trap and keep costs reasonable. They're radio tagging a handful of fish to look at spawning movements within the watershed. Movement data can also be used to identify potential spawning reaches, as well as possibly ID potential barriers or partial barriers to fish passage within the drainage. The latter may include culverts that are only passable under certain flow conditions.

Without data on the fishery- it's hard to state the value of the run in hard numbers when a project comes up that may affect it. For instance- say- a proposal for a dam to power a recreational sawmill, or something similarly stupid. As David Brower pointed out to Americans while heading up the Sierra Club- if you don't know what you have, why would you want to protect it? In his case- he used large format coffee table books to illustrate the beauty of far flung places most folks will never visit to garner public support for protection those places.

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Last edited by Hunter on August 22nd, 2018, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2018, 12:18 pm 
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Hunter wrote:

Without data on the fishery- it's hard to state the value of the run in hard numbers when a project comes up that may affect it. For instance- say- a proposal for a dam to power a recreational sawmill, or something similarly stupid.

:lol:
Exactly

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 7:23 pm 
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Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 11:57 am
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maineangler wrote:
I don’t see a problem with this, and the data collected will be very interesting. Will such info be available for public review? I would love to see what they are able to record.
The only thing I dislike is the location!! Prime...


It is located on a closed section of the river.

Only time will tell if using this weir is a smart decision for the fishery.

I’m not a fan of stripping wild sebago fish eggs for brood stock.

A female has what she has for eggs to deposit. She (possibly many she’s) will not spawn in the fall of 2018. They will swim up river once released and if they have been stripped of their eggs they will not spawn.

Data that has not already been collected is not worth sacrificing a spawn season in my opinion.

The fish have had no impediments to spawning habitat for the first time in a century over the last decade.....and they are doing well.

Perhaps biologist partnering with anglers for days for creel surveys would be a less risky endeavor.

WTF do I know? I just take three weeks off every year to fish it......


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 9:34 pm 
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Notroutset wrote:
maineangler wrote:
I don’t see a problem with this, and the data collected will be very interesting. Will such info be available for public review? I would love to see what they are able to record.
The only thing I dislike is the location!! Prime...


It is located on a closed section of the river.

Only time will tell if using this weir is a smart decision for the fishery.

I’m not a fan of stripping wild sebago fish eggs for brood stock.

A female has what she has for eggs to deposit. She (possibly many she’s) will not spawn in the fall of 2018. They will swim up river once released and if they have been stripped of their eggs they will not spawn.

Data that has not already been collected is not worth sacrificing a spawn season in my opinion.

The fish have had no impediments to spawning habitat for the first time in a century over the last decade.....and they are doing well.

Perhaps biologist partnering with anglers for days for creel surveys would be a less risky endeavor.

WTF do I know? I just take three weeks off every year to fish it......


Did I miss something? The FB post did not indicate the weir would be used for egg stripping. I thought that is what the Panther Run broomstick collection effort was for?

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 9:57 pm 
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Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 11:57 am
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There have been mixed messages in paper articles and at Town hall meetings with the state over the last three years.

This fishery has had consistent staff managing it for 30 years....That is a lot of experience to need more data.

Perhaps if the states position wasn’t so strong on the reconstruction of scribner mill dam their temporary dam would be easier to palette.

The state went to great lengths to reclassify the waterway to classification “a” so dams could not be built.

Impeding fish along their journey to spawn is no different than damming the waterway.

Let them swim and do their thing.

http://news.keepmecurrent.com/fishermen ... weir-plan/


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 6th, 2018, 10:48 pm 
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What part of the Crooked is closed in September??
It’s open from Songo Pond to the Locks during general law season as an S-5. Extended from Oct. 1-15 between Bolsters and Rte. 11.
How do you come to the conclusion that a fish weir is akin to a dam???
A dam would flood the drainage and create a pond, destroying crucial spawning habitat .....

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 5:56 am 
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Joined: May 29th, 2016, 6:46 am
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Location: Sebago ME, Errol NH
I find this data collection to be overdue in many of our fisheries. Although anecdotal reports from fishers about experiences in ponds and rivers is somewhat helpful, it doesn't replace science. If we are spending so much money to "manage" fish stocks, then perhaps this empirical data is exactly what we need to make better decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 8:17 am 
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Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 11:57 am
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maineangler wrote:
What part of the Crooked is closed in September??
It’s open from Songo Pond to the Locks during general law season as an S-5. Extended from Oct. 1-15 between Bolsters and Rte. 11.
How do you come to the conclusion that a fish weir is akin to a dam???
A dam would flood the drainage and create a pond, destroying crucial spawning habitat .....


Hi Shawn

Thanks for stating the regs. My work doesn’t permit me to enjoy the river when that section is open. Hence my statement about it being closed.

I see the temporary structure as an impediment to fish passage. Not a dam in the sense of impounding the waterway.

Ever make a dash for the bedroom to get busy and the door is locked shut from the inside?

That’s what we are doing to this falls spawn.

All great dialogue here.

I love the fishery. I hope we get the data we need and use it to strengthen the sebago fishery.

And I sure as hell hope the human need for more data doesn’t impact the good management mother Nature has been providing.


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 10:41 am 
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Notroutset wrote:
maineangler wrote:
What part of the Crooked is closed in September??
It’s open from Songo Pond to the Locks during general law season as an S-5. Extended from Oct. 1-15 between Bolsters and Rte. 11.
How do you come to the conclusion that a fish weir is akin to a dam???
A dam would flood the drainage and create a pond, destroying crucial spawning habitat .....


Hi Shawn

Thanks for stating the regs. My work doesn’t permit me to enjoy the river when that section is open. Hence my statement about it being closed.

I see the temporary structure as an impediment to fish passage. Not a dam in the sense of impounding the waterway.

Ever make a dash for the bedroom to get busy and the door is locked shut from the inside?

That’s what we are doing to this falls spawn.

All great dialogue here.

I love the fishery. I hope we get the data we need and use it to strengthen the sebago fishery.


And I sure as hell hope the human need for more data doesn’t impact the good management mother Nature has been providing.


Who’s Shawn :lol: - Jon
I’m glad you clarified that a weir is an apple to the orange of a dam.
Certainly the weir will hold up fish migrations, for the duration of the time they are surveyed. Fish are held up for much longer periods due to low water or high temps. And they hold until conditions improve and then move on to whichever Redd is implanted in their brain.
And speaking of fish brains and hormones...I doubt a locked bedroom door is going to interrupt their primal urge to “get it on.” They will undoubtedly persist until they can reach said Redd for that purpose.
Finally, I’m pretty sure the impact of us fishers is much more of an interruption to the spawn than the weir. Try making it with your lady after your jaw has been pierced several times over on your dash to the bedroom.

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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 10:55 am 
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Try making it with your lady after your jaw has been pierced several times over on your dash to the bedroom.[/quote]


Maybe the chicks are into piercings? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Crooked River Weir
PostPosted: September 7th, 2018, 6:33 pm 
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Joined: October 22nd, 2016, 11:57 am
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maineangler wrote:
Notroutset wrote:
maineangler wrote:
What part of the Crooked is closed in September??
It’s open from Songo Pond to the Locks during general law season as an S-5. Extended from Oct. 1-15 between Bolsters and Rte. 11.
How do you come to the conclusion that a fish weir is akin to a dam???
A dam would flood the drainage and create a pond, destroying crucial spawning habitat .....


Hi Shawn

Thanks for stating the regs. My work doesn’t permit me to enjoy the river when that section is open. Hence my statement about it being closed.

I see the temporary structure as an impediment to fish passage. Not a dam in the sense of impounding the waterway.

Ever make a dash for the bedroom to get busy and the door is locked shut from the inside?

That’s what we are doing to this falls spawn.

All great dialogue here.

I love the fishery. I hope we get the data we need and use it to strengthen the sebago fishery.


And I sure as hell hope the human need for more data doesn’t impact the good management mother Nature has been providing.


Who’s Shawn :lol: - Jon
I’m glad you clarified that a weir is an apple to the orange of a dam.
Certainly the weir will hold up fish migrations, for the duration of the time they are surveyed. Fish are held up for much longer periods due to low water or high temps. And they hold until conditions improve and then move on to whichever Redd is implanted in their brain.
And speaking of fish brains and hormones...I doubt a locked bedroom door is going to interrupt their primal urge to “get it on.” They will undoubtedly persist until they can reach said Redd for that purpose.
Finally, I’m pretty sure the impact of us fishers is much more of an interruption to the spawn than the weir. Try making it with your lady after your jaw has been pierced several times over on your dash to the bedroom.


Release mortality is real. For sure.

If a hen is stripped of her eggs, she will return to the spawning grounds but she cannot spawn. I learned that on the phone with our regional biologist team. Also, they don’t return to the identical “redd” location seasonally. LLS create and test several redds before they choose one adequate for dropping eggs. Active redds will have a much higher berm of sand to protect their work compared to a “false redd.”

Lastly, annually spawning for LLS is not guaranteed. Some go and spawn, some skip years.


Enjoy the fall


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