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PostPosted: June 21st, 2018, 5:22 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: October 29th, 2007, 12:00 am
Posts: 421
Location: Vassalboro Me. USA
I have a question for you guy's
I have been fishing some long leaders for some fussy fish.. Hooking and landing some fine browns
My question is when bringing the fish to net there will come a time when you will have to get you leader into the guides. I always try to ware down my fish quickly as possible while still on the fly line but still end up fumbling at that transition and have lost a few really nice fish this way. Its not a problem with my nail knots catching in my guides its just me screwing around too much at the end of the game and popping the flies from the fish, or worse have the fish swing directly below you and one good tug and its a parted tippet :oops: What have you found works best when it's time to swing the big one into your net. I keep telling myself on the river when it happens that " at least I got to play with it some"
"was gonna let it swim away anyway"

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PostPosted: June 21st, 2018, 5:54 pm 
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Joined: February 14th, 2007, 1:00 am
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Location: New Hampshire
These days, I am mostly with you, that they were just going to swim away anyway. If it isn’t your nail knot, then you just gotta find the balance of “tired enough vs. dead”. For me, no matter the size, I just try to get their head up, and slide them up to scooping range as quick as I can get them there.

In France there were times I was fishing leaders that were on the reel and still out of range... it was just a matter of finding the right moment of weakness when I could get their head up and skate them.

Or, just fish some streamers on 3x... way easier :D

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PostPosted: June 21st, 2018, 8:28 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Brunswick
Get a long handled net... that has really help me. I've got a Fishpond net with a 20" handle and an 18" hoop. That 38 inches of reach plus being 6' 4" allows me to net fish from quite a long ways away.
And as Tim says, I always try and get their head up and slide them in... not that you can always do that.

Peter

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PostPosted: June 21st, 2018, 10:35 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: October 29th, 2007, 12:00 am
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Location: Vassalboro Me. USA
I guess what I am really trying to say is.. say you are fishing a 14 foot leader, when you are fighting your fish it is inevitable that at some point to land it you will have at least a few few feet of your leader in the guides if you are fishing a even longer leader it may all be mono. That is where I have been running into lost fish, generally when fishing say a 9 or 10 foot leader you can land your fish without ever getting your leader into the guides. No problem with dinks but when you hook a bruiser on a long light leader/ tippet that is where I have run into lost fish, there is much more give / shock absorbance with the fly line in the guides and not just mono,especially on the last surging runs that can happen at the net. Maybe just trying to land a good fish while its still to hot :lol:

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 6:39 am 
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There is no doubt that I cringe and feel totally vulnerable once my nail knot is in the guides, either because it’ll get bound up, or just an extra little bit of resistance. I hadn’t really thought about the stretch of mono vs fly line, because I assume that the rod does most of the shock absorption. If in fact your knots are sticking on a guide, I would say you should just factor the amount of absolute pressure being applied when they are at your feet. At that point, you have the maximum weight and pull of the fish at an acute angle of flex, which would put maximum pressure on the hook.

Regardless of leader length, I think this is why we have so many that allude is when they are close.

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 7:30 am 
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Joined: May 21st, 2004, 12:00 am
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Location: Westbrook, ME
With those long leaders, wouldn't the part that does enter the guides still be the thicker, primarily butt section? I don't think that would matter much to what's happening at the net end. I fish softer 12-13' leaders on trout ponds, when netting a fish I usually just raise my rod arm up to make up for that few extra feet of leader to keep it our of the guides.

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 7:40 am 
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Joined: October 16th, 2006, 12:00 am
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Location: Harrison
Someone here once gave me a great tip on fighting large fish, and it has worked wonders for me. Lay the rod over to the side and hold pressure toward the shoreline. I takes a lot of fight right out of them.
I rarely fish leaders as long as 14' but do recognize the reasons for it. I would think you could apply the same sideways technique when you get the fish close, but with your hand instead of the rod. Awkward as it might be, if you can grab the butt section of your leader by hand and tuck your rod under arm, and just pull the fish sideways into your net. Probably better executed by someone more coordinated than I.

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 9:40 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
Posts: 844
Location: Brunswick
What are you using for the butt end of your leader? I frequently tie and fish a George Harvey Slack line dry leader.. that comes out, with a long tippet for wary fish, at 12ish feet. I use Maxima for the butt end, and I have read that Maxima has a little more stretch to it then other mono.... perhaps that may help. I was fishing my 8' cane with an 11 or 12' leader with dries on the K recently and wondered how I would land fish without putting the leader threw the tip top... no way in h*** am I putting leader threw the top of a cane rod. I didnt hook up so it became a non-issue.

Peter

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 10:16 am 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Ellsworth
Peter

That becomes a total non-issue if you use a blind splice leader/line connection......or as its sometimes known by its other name a zap a gap connection. Absolutely smooth transition from line to leader, so there’s no chance of screwing up the tip of your new cane rod. Try it; I believe you’ll like it

Dave N

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 7:54 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: November 13th, 2012, 9:32 am
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If you use a blind splice to a 12' knotless leader (a couple of sizes large) and tie up transition and tippet you should be bullet proof.


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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 8:13 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
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Location: Brunswick
Dave M wrote:
Peter

That becomes a total non-issue if you use a blind splice leader/line connection......or as its sometimes known by its other name a zap a gap connection. Absolutely smooth transition from line to leader, so there’s no chance of screwing up the tip of your new cane rod. Try it; I believe you’ll like it

Dave N


Dave,
I currently use a nail knot with superglue to taper each side... it's pretty smooth. I've never mastered the blind splice, and the nail seems small enough. I never think twice about reeling the leader into a graphite rod.

One thing I have noticed is how your tight your drag is set. I think I have been setting my disc drag reels to tight, and after fishing a C&P reel on the cane as soon as the fish moves the reel is letting out line.... easily. Some of my disc reel take a fair amount of force to start to spin, then they lighten up to the setting. I believe that has cost me some fish over the years.

Petet

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 10:41 pm 
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Joined: September 28th, 2003, 12:00 am
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Other than my foray’s to Labrador with Mr. Foley I haven’t fished a graphite rod in I don’t know how long. Maybe 15 years? I do think about my leader going into the tip top but only in the sense of slight hang- up. All my line to leader connections are either factory loop- loop or Whitlock Zap a Gap loop- loop with furled leaders except my nymphing and streamer leaders. Generally I’m fishing a 7-1/2’-8’ rod. I’ve never been to technical and/or anal about my set-ups. That’s to the sense that if I’m getting the fly to the fish and catching them it works for me. Granted I’m not fishing spring creeks etc but I do fish water that gets hit very hard and hold-over rates are high. I also have a couple of lines(silk) that have blood knots in the first 6’ from unintentional f*** ups on my part.
What I’m rambling on about is I don’t worry much about tip breakage. And tippet breakage/lost fish is a letdown but not a game changer. I do when I can get the fish close and it’s head up and sliding on the surface and extend my rod as far up and back along with reaching out with net to scoop/slide them into net. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

Ron

PS casting/catching sets in my tips are a different story.

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PostPosted: June 25th, 2018, 9:01 am 
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Joined: December 5th, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Manchester, ME
I subscribe to the rules salt water big game anglers use. Once I touch the leader, the fish is "caught". :lol:


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PostPosted: June 25th, 2018, 11:03 am 
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FFIM-aholic

Joined: May 21st, 2004, 12:00 am
Posts: 1039
Location: Westbrook, ME
Jeff Reardon wrote:
I subscribe to the rules salt water big game anglers use. Once I touch the leader, the fish is "caught". :lol:


That why my fish "caught" counts are so high with my 20' Euro Leader rig setup. :lol:

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PostPosted: June 25th, 2018, 6:30 pm 
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Joined: September 28th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 2628
Explain "touch"

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