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PostPosted: May 7th, 2018, 9:25 pm 
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In typical Brookfield fashion, they've left themselves no room for spring rain. Mooselook reached full pond today, at which point they went from releasing 600 cfs to 4800.

Aziscohos hit full pond yesterday, and the flow went from 450 cfs to 3900. Flows did not bump up to 450 until a day or so ago; they'd been running 145 cfs for weeks.

Richardson is still about 2 feet below full pond, but with 4800 cfs being dumped from Upper Dam, it will fill fast. When Upper Dam was running 400-600 cfs, it was rising about 6 inches per day. when

They did bump up the Rapid River flow a bit. They were running the minimum flow of 382 cfs until yesterday, when Rapid River flow bumped up to 1,000. It's back down to 382 cfs tonight. With almost 5000 cfs coming in and less than 500 going out. Richardson will rise quickly. Expect a dump of water when that happens, probably in a few days. Expect it again with every rainstorm for quite a while.


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PostPosted: May 8th, 2018, 10:47 am 
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Scott put a bunch up on Facebook Jeff.

I'm still annoyed about the two largemouth in the St. George.


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PostPosted: May 8th, 2018, 10:51 am 
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Just looked up the Dead River numbers, 5/4 at Midnight 459 cfs, by by 5/5 at 9:15 am 13,100.

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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 10:55 am 
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Jeff Reardon wrote:
In typical Brookfield fashion, they've left themselves no room for spring rain. Mooselook reached full pond today, at which point they went from releasing 600 cfs to 4800.

Aziscohos hit full pond yesterday, and the flow went from 450 cfs to 3900. Flows did not bump up to 450 until a day or so ago; they'd been running 145 cfs for weeks.

Richardson is still about 2 feet below full pond, but with 4800 cfs being dumped from Upper Dam, it will fill fast. When Upper Dam was running 400-600 cfs, it was rising about 6 inches per day. when

They did bump up the Rapid River flow a bit. They were running the minimum flow of 382 cfs until yesterday, when Rapid River flow bumped up to 1,000. It's back down to 382 cfs tonight. With almost 5000 cfs coming in and less than 500 going out. Richardson will rise quickly. Expect a dump of water when that happens, probably in a few days. Expect it again with every rainstorm for quite a while.


Richardson has filled. Rapid River flow went from 382 to 3500 cfs last night. Good luck at the Donnybrook Pool. :lol:


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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 11:19 am 
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This would be funny.......except that it isn’t. Any G/D fool knows that snows melt in the Spring and fill the lakes. Why the morons at #$($#”$ Brookfield don’t start letting water out in late February or early March to anticipate this escapes me. Gawd damn fools.

Dave M

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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 1:26 pm 
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Well Brookfield is in the water harvesting business so storing when its plentiful is their objective. Once they reach maximum storage they are forced to release the excess, but they'll hold on to the water as long as possible. I don't fault their logic in this regard even though we might find it inconvenient at times.

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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 3:15 pm 
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Al, it's the sudden changes that bother me.

If (for example) two days ago Richardson Lake was within 2" of "normal full pond", and you knew there was 4800 cfs coming in from Upper Dam, why keep the gate set at minimum flow for another 36 hours, followed by a sudden dump of water that increases Rapid River flows to 3500 cfs after the lake has risen to 4" above full pond?

Why not be a little conservative and ramp the flows up gradually?

Or, if (for example) 6 days ago Mooselookmeguntic Lake was 6 inches below "normal full pond", and you knew that the combination of snowmelt and rain had inflows well above average, why keep the gate set at 600 cfs for 3 more days while the lake rose to 9 inches above normal full pond before suddenly increasing outflow to 4800 cfs?

For a driver, this is the equivalent of spinning the tires every time you take off from a stop sign, and sliding to a stop at the next one. A little moderation would make a big difference.

If the gate changes were made a few days earlier, the "dumped" water could be spread out over a longer period of time and moderate the downstream impacts.

If this happened when'd we'd just had a 3 or 4 inch dump of rain, or if we had exceptionally high snow pack this spring, I'd blame mother nature. But that's not the case.

Errol has had 4.5 inches of rain since April 1st, which is almost exactly average. Snowpack since April 1 has been in the normal to below normal range.

From 1950-1993, when Union Water Power was running these projects, flows like these almost never occurred, and when they did it was during events like the 1987 flood. Ditto after the new license was issued in 2002. (I have the historical data from licensing documents, and have watched the flows closely since 2002 when the new license was issued. I don't have data for the 9 years in between. There was one screaming flood in there where we got an enormous rain event in early June--1998, I think.) These extreme flows in years with normal snowpack and normal rainfall seem to be a recent development--and a predictable and avoidable one.


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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 3:36 pm 
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dryflie wrote:
Well Brookfield is in the water harvesting business so storing when its plentiful is their objective. Once they reach maximum storage they are forced to release the excess, but they'll hold on to the water as long as possible. I don't fault their logic in this regard even though we might find it inconvenient at times.


Al- it's not the inconvenience; it's the total lack of any consideration for any values other than their business. They suck.

What licenses, if any, are coming up for renewal any time soon? There's a nice, color, glossy picture from Brookfield inside the law book cover....


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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 6:07 pm 
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titleguy wrote:
What licenses, if any, are coming up for renewal any time soon? There's a nice, color, glossy picture from Brookfield inside the law book cover....



Since you ask, Aziscohos is coming up, expires in 2025. Consultation for a new license should start around around 2020.

Mousam Dams are in licensing now. So is Shawmut.


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PostPosted: May 10th, 2018, 10:00 pm 
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Certainly do not want to seem a Brookfield advocate, I just wanted to mention their point of view. Needless to say should the state decide to step in and help moderate the flow situation I'd be in favor.

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PostPosted: May 11th, 2018, 8:07 am 
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Jeff Reardon wrote:
titleguy wrote:
What licenses, if any, are coming up for renewal any time soon? There's a nice, color, glossy picture from Brookfield inside the law book cover....



Since you ask, Aziscohos is coming up, expires in 2025. Consultation for a new license should start around around 2020.

Mousam Dams are in licensing now. So is Shawmut.


Public comment period still open?


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PostPosted: May 11th, 2018, 8:09 am 
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dryflie wrote:
Certainly do not want to seem a Brookfield advocate, I just wanted to mention their point of view. Needless to say should the state decide to step in and help moderate the flow situation I'd be in favor.


Again- look at the full page Brookfield ad in the law book.... and Fudgie the Whale loves hydro power.


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PostPosted: May 13th, 2018, 12:20 pm 
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As a skier I'm pretty mindful of the amount of snowpack. In early Jan it was too cold to snow. February, as I recall, was pretty average. We had some rain and melting that did away with much of the snowpack. By late Feb all we had were trails with manmade snow, and none of the glades were open due to lack of snow. By mid March we were saying that if we didn't get snow, the season would be done. Fortunately we got a couple good storms in March to make for some spectacular spring skiing! We DID get snow, but it melted off mid-season. Not sure if most of that filled the impoundments and lakes, but just based on snowpack, I would not have assumed there would be lots of snow for spring runoff in Feb or early March and would have saved the commodity if I were in that business. But yes, it certainly would be good if they could be more consistent with the flows. My guess would be, it's more time consuming for employees to do so, and they are probably pretty busy with plans for seasonal projects and maintenance, so tweaking the flow continually is probably not a high priority. It would be interesting to know the methods and differences, and why they exist, between the WB and the Kennebec as an example. WB doesn't seem to fluctuate nearly as much. Maybe the complexity of the K system with more dams, feeder streams? I'd be curious to know.


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PostPosted: May 13th, 2018, 11:03 pm 
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Split Shot wrote:
My guess would be, it's more time consuming for employees to do so, and they are probably pretty busy with plans for seasonal projects and maintenance, so tweaking the flow continually is probably not a high priority.


I think that hits the nail on the head. 20 years ago, there were dam keepers at every dam watching lake levels and river flows and run-off 24/7. Staffing levels now are a lot lower, and I wonder if that leads to a loss of "feel" for how each system works.

In any case, things seem to be coming back into the fishable range.


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PostPosted: May 14th, 2018, 8:46 am 
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Split Shot wrote:
As a skier I'm pretty mindful of the amount of snowpack. In early Jan it was too cold to snow. February, as I recall, was pretty average. We had some rain and melting that did away with much of the snowpack. By late Feb all we had were trails with manmade snow, and none of the glades were open due to lack of snow. By mid March we were saying that if we didn't get snow, the season would be done. Fortunately we got a couple good storms in March to make for some spectacular spring skiing! We DID get snow, but it melted off mid-season. Not sure if most of that filled the impoundments and lakes, but just based on snowpack, I would not have assumed there would be lots of snow for spring runoff in Feb or early March and would have saved the commodity if I were in that business. But yes, it certainly would be good if they could be more consistent with the flows. My guess would be, it's more time consuming for employees to do so, and they are probably pretty busy with plans for seasonal projects and maintenance, so tweaking the flow continually is probably not a high priority. It would be interesting to know the methods and differences, and why they exist, between the WB and the Kennebec as an example. WB doesn't seem to fluctuate nearly as much. Maybe the complexity of the K system with more dams, feeder streams? I'd be curious to know.


Or, perhaps, they just suck. You did not see this kind of behavior until Brookfield took over.


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