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 Post subject: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2017, 11:03 am 
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Joined: April 1st, 2010, 10:35 am
Posts: 275
Location: flatland and Vienna Me.
Looking for a pattern that doesn't use the stripped stem body.
Thanks for any suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2017, 2:06 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire
I used Rusty Pinner dyed biots

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2017, 4:24 pm 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Ellsworth
Well Bill.....you could use turkey biots....Or even thread covered with thin uv resin I suppose. Could I inquire as to why you don’t want to use the stripped peacock herl body?

Dave M

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2017, 5:02 pm 
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Joined: April 1st, 2010, 10:35 am
Posts: 275
Location: flatland and Vienna Me.
From past experience a PITA


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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2017, 7:34 pm 
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Joined: December 5th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5260
Location: Manchester, ME
Dave M wrote:
Well Bill.....you could use turkey biots....Or even thread covered with thin uv resin I suppose. Could I inquire as to why you don’t want to use the stripped peacock herl body?

Dave M


Don't you mean a brown hackle stem? I was taught the stripped peacock herl stem was for a Quill Gordon--and those ARE a PITA. The "pencil eraser" method for stripping them sucks. Not effective, and you break a bunch. If you strip them with bleach you change the color, and they get brittle and hard to use. But I find stripped hackle stems pretty easy to work with. If you have trouble with them splitting or cracking, try soaking them in a glass of water with a few drops of dish soap. They soften right up.

In truth, though, I've tied almost all my dry flies with dubbed (or thread) bodies for some years now. I like Ligas "rusty brown" or "cinnamon" for a reddish bodied mayfly.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 18th, 2017, 2:37 am 
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I have much less problems with the peacock quill, I just strip them with my thumb nail and let them sit in a wet paper towel for 10 mins.

That said, a red quill calls for an actual quill from a hackle, which can now be readily bought, and they look great, but they are not cheap!

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 18th, 2017, 9:21 am 
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Location: Manchester, ME
TGIF wrote:
I have much less problems with the peacock quill, I just strip them with my thumb nail and let them sit in a wet paper towel for 10 mins.

That said, a red quill calls for an actual quill from a hackle, which can now be readily bought, and they look great, but they are not cheap!


I tried the commercially available ones and did not like them. Expensive, brittle, and not a great selection of sizes.

I'll have to try your technique with peacock. It's probably a decade since I tried to tie with one. Brown saddle hackles are really easy to strip by hand, and the cheap strung saddles work fine. Good way to use up the strung hackles that are poor quality or get twisted and mangled.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 18th, 2017, 10:22 am 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Ellsworth
I presume you guys are writing about Catskills ties?

I virtually never tie Catskill patterns as I much prefer Sparkle Duns and Parachutes, but I do use those stripped Hackles for some of my Spring Creek flies.......and they work just fine.

The secret, I believe, is to wet a paper towel and have the stripped stems stay in there for five minutes or so before using them. They work very well.

Again......if one is worried about them becoming brittle after tying the fly just put either a thin coat of Hard As Hull, Sally Hansen’s, or thin UV resin over the body. It will never come undone.

I don’t bother stripping my own.......you can buy a pack of them, and while some may call that the expensive way......my time is more valuable than a couple of dollars buying them. I must have them in a dozen different colors, but actually use PMD the most.

Dave M

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 18th, 2017, 10:32 am 
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I have a common barnyard Rhode Island Red chunk of feathers. Not even sure exactly where they came from. They are greasy and nasty. Something that more resembles coyote bait that Don Lynch would have versus quality dry fly material. That being said they strip wonderfully and are very pliable for winding. All that fancy schmancy material is washed and de- cootyfied almost to a fault. You just want to remember not tho lick your fingers right away, at least until the oil has been absorbed.

Ron

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2017, 3:30 pm 
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The pre stripped ones I am thinking of are those polish ones... 8 bucks for 2 dozen in a single color is brutal. I also use my old strung hackle for them, I find they don’t retain much color after stripping, but a sharpie in multiple colors helps fix that.

Pre soaking is a must for peacock quills, chicken quills and occasionally finicky biots. Once tied I have never had one break on me.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 12:16 pm 
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Location: Near the tying bench
Dave M wrote:
I presume you guys are writing about Catskills ties?

I virtually never tie Catskill patterns as I much prefer Sparkle Duns and Parachutes, but I do use those stripped Hackles for some of my Spring Creek flies.......and they work just fine.

The secret, I believe, is to wet a paper towel and have the stripped stems stay in there for five minutes or so before using them. They work very well.

Again......if one is worried about them becoming brittle after tying the fly just put either a thin coat of Hard As Hull, Sally Hansen’s, or thin UV resin over the body. It will never come undone.

I don’t bother stripping my own.......you can buy a pack of them, and while some may call that the expensive way......my time is more valuable than a couple of dollars buying them. I must have them in a dozen different colors, but actually use PMD the most.

Dave M


I'm with you day regarding liking sparkle duns, but the Catskill-style patterns still have a place in my box for the kinds of waters for which they were designed. Wild, freestone systems- where a long drift might be a few feet. The high riding Catskill patterns just seem to stay afloat longer too, at least for me. I bought a half dozen Catskill-style red quills a number of years ago at a flyshop in Roscoe, NY (Beaverkill Angler?). I've managed to squeak by with that number, given the limited season duration of the red quill activity locally, but know I'm down to the one or two in my fly box. I'll be tying a few replacements over the winter if I can get the hang of soaking the stems correctly (I've had issues with them splitting out during wrapping).

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 2:02 pm 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 4032
Location: Ellsworth
David.....

I was just tying with those stripped stems this morning. 5he key to them not splitting.......at least for me.......is to soak them in a wet paper towel for the duration of your tying session......after soaking them for a good five to ten minutes as you’re getting your materials set up.

And for durability, after I tie on the z-Lon tail and get the smooth underbody where I want it, I hit the underbody with a *thin* coat of Sally Hansans and wrap the stripped quill right into 5he Sally’s. The durability that way is excellent.

Dave M

PS: I do tie up a few Catskill patterns most years just to see if I can do it, but virtually never fish them, as that’s not the type of water I normally fish.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 2:42 pm 
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Z-lon tails on a Catskill-style dry? I didn't know that was legal. :mrgreen:

I'll try the cement on the shank idea.

I also think part of the problem I've had with stems splitting relates to the bleaching & dyeing process the pre-stripped stems I've used have gone through. I'm going to try stripping a few barnyard chickens of their winter coats... er... a few barnyard hackles of their barbs and try wrapping the stems. Thankfully, I have some crappy hackle to play with laying around the house.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 4:11 pm 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2001, 1:00 am
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Location: Ellsworth
Hunter wrote:
Z-lon tails on a Catskill-style dry? I didn't know that was legal. :mrgreen:

I'll try the cement on the shank idea.

e.


I wasn’t clear. Sorry. The Z-Lon tails were on PMD Parachutes with the stripped stem abdomen, and PMD Soft Hackles with the stripped stems.......made to fish right in the film after being Frog Fannied.

Dave M

PS: Those Soft Hackles are a generic pattern that can be any emerges you want them to be just by changing the abdomen and thorax. The Whiting Soft Hackle feather is always medium dun.

PPS: On the Catskills the tails are always Whiting Coc de Leon fibers.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Quill pattern?
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 5:43 pm 
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Joined: December 5th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5260
Location: Manchester, ME
I don't recall the Dette's using Coq de Leon, but it is nice stuff. Plenty of tailing material on a dry fly neck, too. (If anyone ties with necks any more. Those quality saddles have ruined us.)

And I love me some Z-lon, but a few wisps of wood duck are pretty nice as the tail/shuck on soft hackles, too.

Dave, do you ever fish those just under the surface? I used to do really well on "a certain mid-coast stream that fishes like a spring creek" on very small--22 and 24--soft hackles with an olive fur body, very sparse, and a single wrap of dun soft hackle. I'd drop them off the tail of something I could see like a parachute or CDC BWO a size or two bigger, and use the indicator fly to make sure I was getting a dead drift. The soft hackle would end up an inch or three below the surface.

These worked during both BWO and micro caddis hatches there.

It was a deadly technique when I could control drag well enough, and every fish took the soft hackle, not the dry. My kind of fly. Simple, cheap materials, and easy to crank out by the dozen.


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