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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 1:40 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 759
Location: Vermont/Rangeley
If that were to happen, that would be the day I'd quit.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 3:17 pm 
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Joined: May 29th, 2016, 6:46 am
Posts: 41
Location: Sebago ME, Errol NH
Some people just suck! Most don't, but some sure do.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 3:35 pm 
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Joined: April 17th, 2016, 2:18 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Bath, ME
I feel ya...its crazy but it happens all over the country and I have decided to just keep moving on when it does. I may very well say something but I am looking for places that have ample opportunity to find water. I posted about my incident a couple weeks ago...took a breath and ...its just not worth it. When you see people act like that I think in a certain way you have to feel sorry for them that there is so much anxiety in their lives that they have to have your pool. I mean that seriously. I am approaching fishing some of these places with an expectation that there Will be a few sorry souls there...there is a ton of fish holding water at most of these places so I am off to find my own...and if I hit it on the right day at the right time I will have some "A" water all to myself...otherwise I'll take the "B" water which trout still regard as "A" water I've been told.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 3:44 pm 
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Joined: March 16th, 2013, 11:04 pm
Posts: 562
Vermonter wrote:
If that were to happen, that would be the day I'd quit.


So would I Bob. Just to be clear,and steer this back on topic, this wasn't an issue of crowding, it was an issue of etiquette. I could care less that I had the pool snaked. It was actually pretty amusing to watch. After the initial WTF? I thought about some etiquette issues I've seen and heard about over the years. Is it the me generation or are we as anglers not placing enough focus on traditions that add something to our sport? Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 4:04 pm 
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Joined: December 4th, 2001, 1:00 am
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RoundaboutCaddis wrote:
Is it the me generation or are we as anglers not placing enough focus on traditions that add something to our sport? Thoughts?


I don't think it's the generation- as the responsibility falls across many age groups. I do think it has a lot to do with how most folks (from young to older than dirt) these days are interested in instant gratification as a result of the inventions of things like smart phones, etc...

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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 4:10 pm 
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Joined: March 16th, 2013, 11:04 pm
Posts: 562
Hunter wrote:
RoundaboutCaddis wrote:
Is it the me generation or are we as anglers not placing enough focus on traditions that add something to our sport? Thoughts?


I don't think it's the generation- as the responsibility falls across many age groups. I do think it has a lot to do with how most folks (from young to older than dirt) these days are interested in instant gratification as a result of the inventions of things like smart phones, etc...

That's what I was driving at.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 6:19 pm 
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Joined: February 11th, 2002, 1:00 am
Posts: 1511
Location: Dayton, Maine
Ernest Schweibert was drilling home the etiquette of our sport in the 1950's when he devoted a whole chapter to itin "Matching the Hatch". He complained of the same things then that we are right now. The difference is that there are many more on the rivers now than then, so the issue becomes more glaring because it seems to happen more often now


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 7:02 pm 
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Joined: February 22nd, 2009, 1:36 pm
Posts: 306
Location: Sebago Lake and Moosehead Lake Regions
Interesting reads... I feel like I have witnessed more than my share of poor etiquette, from the Kayakers on the West Branch, the Source to Sea group on the Andro (couldn't control the canoe and ran right into my anchored drift boat), More experiences on the Rapid and Roach than you will ever know..

I would never advocate for legislation.

Depending on the individual, my state of mind and other factors dictates how I handle these situations going forward.

Have an awesome day!

- ZG -


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 24th, 2017, 10:11 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2003, 12:00 am
Posts: 748
My apologies, I didn't think I was taking the thread to an off topic direction. Its just I find it interesting that we get several threads every year that touch on the theme of "etiquette" that usually contain a humorous story of a shocking display of behavior and then universal condemnation of the poor fool who committed the would be offense against proper "etiquette".

I've come to find in my long years that one persons idea of "etiquette", perceived from the other party could easily be interpreted as pool hogging. I've seen locals from Rangeley, that while on the water feel they own the dam place because they're local, and the guys that drive 3 hours to get there and put some money in the local economy while they are there are resented for just being there. And those poor fools hadn't even wet a line yet and were just passing through. Sure it would have been rude for them jump in the hole, or would it? Does the guy that gets there first because he only has to drive 20 minutes compared to 3 hours own the river? What if the bank along the popular spot is 20 yards long? Is it poor etiquette for one to move into a spot that can clearly hold more people then just one guy?

I've come to accept that I don't know thing one about other people I see on the river and what compels them to do what they do. I also figure nobody owes me anything, so why would I expect a guy to just behave the way I want them too? Do you think people owe you something?... in this case proper "etiquette" while on the river.

Lets be honest with ourselves, each and every person you see on the river is up there for their own enjoyment. They are not there to make your experience better. It is foolish to rely on or to expect people to do the right thing. In my experience, people have to be compelled to do the right thing. If you don't want to compel them, then you shouldn't expect it and then go start proper etiquette posts when you are offended by their behavior.

If you want to change an offensive behavior or activity, legislation and regulation is the only vehicle available for that . Otherwise, its a free country, these experiences are a price of that freedom.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 25th, 2017, 7:18 am 
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Joined: August 28th, 2002, 12:00 am
Posts: 1297
Location: Standish, ME
Hunter wrote:
RoundaboutCaddis wrote:
Is it the me generation or are we as anglers not placing enough focus on traditions that add something to our sport? Thoughts?


I don't think it's the generation- as the responsibility falls across many age groups. I do think it has a lot to do with how most folks (from young to older than dirt) these days are interested in instant gratification as a result of the inventions of things like smart phones, etc...


Amen - we live in the "microwave" era - I want it NOW! Doesn't matter if it is "ethical" or bad for them (the drive through at McD's is fairly good proof of that) or the resource (for some people, not ALL). Screw everyone else - full speed ahead! As far as legislating - I've always believed you can't legislate morality and I'm not sure the DIFW has the resources to enforce - they have their hands pretty full already. We've tried to legislate, at some point, drug use, abortion, alcohol - not sure legislating this would work. Until you convince people that their behavior is not in their, or the resources, best interest they'll likely continue to do what they do. At some point they hopefully realize that good behavior enhances THEIR OWN experience - who doesn't like PLEASANT encounters on the water? I think part of the issue is simply the volume of traffic - we suffer from fly fishings popularity. More people fishing the same stretches of water and many not willing to walk a little further when they see water they were going to fish already occupied.


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 25th, 2017, 7:57 am 
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Joined: July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm
Posts: 759
Location: Brunswick
I have, for the last 2 years or so, starting being extra courteous to other anglers. Especially on well know wild and native rivers where these incidents tend to happen the most. I always ask people if they mind if I fish a certain section if I feel like we might be a little close. I even go to the point to ask people if they mind if I walk behind them, or if they are fishing up or down so I can do the opposite, if we're walking in at the same time I'll ask them which pools they want to hit and I'll work around them. My hope is people will take that experience and think "man that guy was really polite, I'm glad he asked first" maybe they will start doing the same. It is certainly a treat others as you'd want to be treated situation, but I don't think there will ever be a day when that one guy doesn't make an appearance. I've had people I KNOW do exactly what you described Roundabout...to the point where they left their kids at the car to gear up and walk in alone while he grab his vest and ran down the path. I mean come on, just don't be a d*** and everyone will have a great time.


Peter

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Lee Wulff


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 25th, 2017, 8:03 am 
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Joined: May 21st, 2004, 12:00 am
Posts: 1009
Location: Westbrook, ME
In my 40+ years on this rock orbiting this small star, I've come to realize that etiquette & common sense have been deteriorating and are no longer the norm. Just watch any local news in anytown USA or the national news to witness it. Heck, just years go, stories would focus on individuals not displaying proper etiquette & common sense as that was the exception. Now - the feature news story is of an individual displaying these attributes - as unfortunately, it's become the exception.

I consider myself in the latter category. If my behavior & actions rub off on someone - great!

This applies in life in general as well as on the water. I have zero behavioral expectations of people I don't know and just react and adjust accordingly.

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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." Albert Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 25th, 2017, 11:18 am 
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FFIMer

Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 6:49 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Rangeley Plantation, mooselookmeguntic
I would not be in favor of legislation. I don't think it would be enforced. I have been on the water about 40 days thus far this season and have not seen a game warden yet. I fish some pretty popular rivers and some more remote waters. I have not had any problems this season and have met many very polite people. I have been asked several times by folks if it was OK for them to enter the river above or below me and I always do the same. Every couple years I do encounter a situation where I get crowded and it does steam me up sometimes, other times I can just walk away. But then I rarely fish weekends on the popular waters, fish early, will drive away if the parking area is busy and go somewhere else, and generally stay away from those places were I know it will be crowded. I think it has not reached the point where we need to try to regulate it. If I fish 70 to 90 days a season and I only experience poor behavior once or twice every other season it isn't that bad. I have experienced more polite behavior than bad behavior.

Maybe we should start a local Maine tradition, if you act poorly and step into another anglers water then he/she has a right to Stone the pool!!! LOL. hey, they used to have routine fist fights on the Salmon River in upstate NY years ago when I'd go up there Steelhead fishing, but that was usually with the guys who were into the salmon snagging back then. Legend had it there was a shooting once.Now that was combat fishing!

I don't think because a guy drives 3 hours and "puts money into the local economy" that he has any special privilege to get on the water. And first come first serve is part of our tradition as far as stream access. A guy can fish a piece of water as long as he has a mind to. In my experience if you wait patiently on an occupied pool, many anglers will invite you to step in after a time. Not always, but often in my experience..


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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 27th, 2017, 6:58 am 
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Karma bit me in the can a little bit on this one. Not the kind that gets you down the road, this was fairly immediate:
I was on the Animas river one morning in high water conditions that were rapidly receding and the water was clearing. Up until then it had been a streamer/nymph game along the edges. But I found a nice eddy and spotted some nice trout rising. I did not have time to fish it, so vowed to return that evening. When I drove back later that eve., I passed a parked car and two guys were just starting to gear up, not far from this eddy. I parked further down the road, and knew the obvious; if I was quick to gear up I would probably get the eddy first. Looking down the road at the other two anglers gearing up, maybe 200 feet or so, I noticed they were moving slow. My rod was rigged from the morning outing and all I had to do was slip on my waders and boots and vest and scoot. I didn't run, I didn't take a wild angle to cut them off. I simply moved to the eddy with a quick step. Was it necessary to walk down the road and ask the two what their plans were and inform them of mine? On a river that was 100 feet wide? I didn't think so then, and still don't today.
Fish were rising and eager to take an EHC, and soon I was hooked up with a large brown. The brown was way downstream immediately and I had to give chase. A few guys in a nearby drift boat hollered encouragement as I tried to tame the fish. But it was too strong. All of a sudden I come around a corner and there are the two anglers from up on the road.
Now, typically I would have hollered a request for help with a net on a runaway bruiser trout, but since I had intentionally tried to get the eddy first, I didn't think I had the right to ask them for help. So I planted my feet and put the wood to the brown and the leader popped.
Karma wins again. But ask me, would I hustle to be first on a prime spot again in a scenario like that?Damn right! No apologies, either :wink:
Within reason, nothing wrong with a little hustle folks.

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 Post subject: Re: Wow
PostPosted: July 27th, 2017, 9:38 am 
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Joined: August 14th, 2013, 3:22 pm
Posts: 24
maineangler wrote:
That sounds indefensible, probably time to change the fishing trip into a swimming trip. Practice your cannonballs and can openers.
In the interest of being devil's advocate, however, what is the proper etiquette toward taking a pool when you've shown up at generally the same time as another angler? Someone's gotta make that first cast. How far did you drive? How long since you've fished? How long have you been daydreaming about that particular spot before you actually had opportunity to hit it? Lots of factors influence behavior.
Hustle has always paid off for me, in sports, in work, in life, so why shouldn't I hustle to get that spot (I have)? Someone has to be first.
In my hustle I definitely would have said hello on the way by, though.


maineangler wrote:
Karma bit me in the can a little bit on this one. Not the kind that gets you down the road, this was fairly immediate:
I was on the Animas river one morning in high water conditions that were rapidly receding and the water was clearing. Up until then it had been a streamer/nymph game along the edges. But I found a nice eddy and spotted some nice trout rising. I did not have time to fish it, so vowed to return that evening. When I drove back later that eve., I passed a parked car and two guys were just starting to gear up, not far from this eddy. I parked further down the road, and knew the obvious; if I was quick to gear up I would probably get the eddy first. Looking down the road at the other two anglers gearing up, maybe 200 feet or so, I noticed they were moving slow. My rod was rigged from the morning outing and all I had to do was slip on my waders and boots and vest and scoot. I didn't run, I didn't take a wild angle to cut them off. I simply moved to the eddy with a quick step. Was it necessary to walk down the road and ask the two what their plans were and inform them of mine? On a river that was 100 feet wide? I didn't think so then, and still don't today.
Fish were rising and eager to take an EHC, and soon I was hooked up with a large brown. The brown was way downstream immediately and I had to give chase. A few guys in a nearby drift boat hollered encouragement as I tried to tame the fish. But it was too strong. All of a sudden I come around a corner and there are the two anglers from up on the road.
Now, typically I would have hollered a request for help with a net on a runaway bruiser trout, but since I had intentionally tried to get the eddy first, I didn't think I had the right to ask them for help. So I planted my feet and put the wood to the brown and the leader popped.
Karma wins again. But ask me, would I hustle to be first on a prime spot again in a scenario like that?Damn right! No apologies, either :wink:
Within reason, nothing wrong with a little hustle folks.


I'm sorry, but this is a perfect example of a piss poor attitude. Your actions and justifications for those actions are weak at best. I feel bad for those who feel the need to be aggressive and competitive for a good fishing spot, I'm guessing the people exhibiting this kind of behavior are most likely not competent fisherman and must not know of any where else to go or how to read and locate new water.


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