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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 2:27 pm 
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Location: Westbrook, ME
Old thread on the topic...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18572&start=0

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 2:46 pm 
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Location: Ellsworth
While I absolutely agree with what someone said above....I.e. If you're using a fly rod, fly reel, fly line, and artificial fly....you're fly fishing ......that doesn't apply regarding the trolling law.

After WWII my Dad used to go up to a general law trout pond north of Bingham. He wasn't a fly fisherman, but used an old Montague fly rod. They trolled worms (perfectly legal and within the law) as their general rule of fishing that pond. How would a Warden know of you were trolling a fly or trolling worms of other bait if trolling were legal on ffo waters?

I also suspect that those regs were put in place long before C&R became commonplace. It's a helluva lot easier to catch trout trolling than casting. If trolling were legal many trout ponds would, in all probability, have been thoroughly cleaned out of trout if all trout caught were kept. Many ffo ponds had sporting camps on them. I strongly suspect those camp owners lobbied, perhaps hard, for ffo regs to protect their resources.

Dave M

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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 3:09 pm 
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FFIMer

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simple... if you have fly reel ,fly, rod, and leader ..make the law that all of that equipment makes it perfectly legal ,and if you want to drift around by way of the wind fine still FFO , if you want to propel your self with a paddle in a canoe ..fine still FFO ..but that its no mechanical equipment to assist you

yes I know is a big lake or at lease good size ..but think Parmacheenee lake regulations ?


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 4:32 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
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It amazes me that on a board called Fly Fishing in Maine how many members don't understand why the fly fishing only rule exists.

Earlier it this thread "In the trees" has posted a link to a thread from 2012 and I see I have a post there (Sat April 14, 2012 2:27 pm.) That post explains my opinions on why trolling is not allowed on FFO waters. I'm too lazy to re right the whole thing now and don't think many people really care. We just want to catch as many fish as we can today and let someone else worry about tomorrow.

In short trolling is, in general, a much more effective way to attract and catch fish. As Dave M stated in an earlier post in this thread, many ponds that have the FFO designation would have been fished to death long ago without the special restrictions brought about by the FFO designation.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 5:27 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: September 28th, 2014, 1:38 pm
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That's the answer I was looking for. I don't fish ponds at all, small streams are my preference, so never had the experience.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 6:10 pm 
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FFIMer

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Nickj, not to get off topic but where in the law book does it talk about fishing from a bridge being trolling? You lost me on that one. Thanks


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 6:15 pm 
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NickJ wrote:
So there it is, personal attack.


Well, sort of, but only because you made it a matter of being personal at the start of the thread when you said the law against trolling in FFO only waters is "In my opinion, a waste of the warden's time and a silly regulation." With no rationale at all?

And then you go on to say you have a Lifetime License, as if that obviates any need on your part to read the annual regulations. What do you expect Hatch to do, sit down with you and explain the regs line-by-line?

Sheesh.

bb


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 6:42 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: September 28th, 2014, 1:38 pm
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bearbutt wrote:
NickJ wrote:
So there it is, personal attack.


Well, sort of, but only because you made it a matter of being personal at the start of the thread when you said the law against trolling in FFO only waters is "In my opinion, a waste of the warden's time and a silly regulation." With no rationale at all?

And then you go on to say you have a Lifetime License, as if that obviates any need on your part to read the annual regulations. What do you expect Hatch to do, sit down with you and explain the regs line-by-line?

Sheesh.

bb

As I said, read the whole post. You're not required to agree with my opinion, but civil discourse does expect that you exhibit basic manners, which you've failed at along with your failure to process the information in this thread.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 7:01 pm 
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FFIMer

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NickJ wrote:
but civil discourse does expect that you exhibit basic manners.



And civil law expects you to follow existing statutes. So get a book of the regulations. Read it. Then come back with and ask questions from an informed position.

bb


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 7:08 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: September 28th, 2014, 1:38 pm
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bearbutt wrote:
NickJ wrote:
but civil discourse does expect that you exhibit basic manners.



And civil law expects you to follow existing statutes. So get a book of the regulations. Read it. Then come back with and ask questions from an informed position.

bb

You don't get it, do you? I've read the statutes and their related addenda. Would you like page numbers?
You've added nothing to this , but that's what trolls do.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 7:33 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: July 1st, 2003, 12:00 am
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hatch wrote:
It amazes me that on a board called Fly Fishing in Maine how many members don't understand why the fly fishing only rule exists.

Earlier it this thread "In the trees" has posted a link to a thread from 2012 and I see I have a post there (Sat April 14, 2012 2:27 pm.) That post explains my opinions on why trolling is not allowed on FFO waters. I'm too lazy to re right the whole thing now and don't think many people really care. We just want to catch as many fish as we can today and let someone else worry about tomorrow.

In short trolling is, in general, a much more effective way to attract and catch fish. As Dave M stated in an earlier post in this thread, many ponds that have the FFO designation would have been fished to death long ago without the special restrictions brought about by the FFO designation.


Hatch please enlighten me on why ..im not going to go all BM on you ..Dave M knows what I mean :wink: but I think maybe it partly to keep certain groups of people off the water ..no ??

I personally see no harm in sitting in your canoe drifting and casting ..if you want to pause for a bit rest the shoulder ,fire up a cigar so be it ..if you really rambunctious and you want to bring out the arm horse power have at ..this state is so ass backwards in its approach on one hand we exploit the crap out of stuff to the point a faltering/failed fisheries that we have to resort to stocking to have one (multiple examples around the state with pond and moving water ) ,and on the other hand we hide in the woods to catch someone drifting in there canoe while fly fishing a pond ..give me a break


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 7:52 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: March 16th, 2013, 11:04 pm
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Everyone familiar with clearing your throat when someone crowds you in the pool?


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 8:01 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: March 16th, 2013, 11:04 pm
Posts: 549
cdc wrote:

I personally see no harm in sitting in your canoe drifting and casting ..if you want to pause for a bit rest the shoulder ,fire up a cigar so be it ..


and on the other hand we hide in the woods to catch someone drifting in there canoe while fly fishing a pond ..give me a break


If you want to have a cigar, reel in.

I know none of the particulars of the example Hatch posted, but I'm willing to bet the Warden wasn't hiding in the woods to catch someone drifting in a canoe dragging a fly. Odds are he had a reason to be in there watching this particular pond, wherever it was. Just food for thought.


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 8:17 pm 
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Joined: December 5th, 2001, 1:00 am
Posts: 5129
Location: Manchester, ME
Not trying to stir the pot.

Do other states with FFO regulations also ban trolling on FFO waters? New Hampshire does not, but I don't know about other states. NH does ban lead core on FFO water.

Fly-fishing: Fishing by trolling or casting with
only fly rod, fly reel, and fly line combination
with an artificial fly or cast of artificial flies
attached, and does not include the use of spinning,
spincast, and casting rods and reels and
lead core lines.


I was pretty surprised a few years ago on one of NH's few wild trout ponds to observe that most of the other anglers were trolling. Then I read the NH rules and realized they were perfectly legal. Afterwards I wondered if they were all miffed at the "out of state idiot" who anchored right on the end of the point they all wanted to troll past. :lol:


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PostPosted: May 29th, 2017, 8:27 pm 
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FFIMer

Joined: March 24th, 2010, 9:49 pm
Posts: 464
CDC You ask "Hatch, please enlighten me on why..." I assume you are asking why I think trolling a fly creates an advantage over fly casting. As stated previously in this thread "In the Trees" posted a link in this thread where this topic was discussed in 2012. I have a post in that thread dated April 14, 2012 2:27 pm. That post explains my trolling flies advantage over casting flies opinion. I just don't feel like re righting the whole thing. You can look it up if you wish.

Now CDC, your quote the FFO regulation is "partially designed to keep certain groups off the water".
Where is that coming from? Please elaborate. I want to know more.

In the late 1800s Quimby Pond in Rangeley was the first water in Maine designated FFO. I believe the FFO designation is a conservation move to protect a water that might be fished out by using other fishing methods. Since Quimby Pond in the late 1800s approximately 200 Maine lakes and ponds have been designated FFO. As mentioned earlier, a few of these got the designation by sporting camp owners wishing to protect their resource. The vast majority got the FFO designation to protect what state officials considered a fragile resource that could be easily damaged (over fished) if left open to other forms of angling including trolling.

For over 100 years these Maine fishing authorities have had the opinion that trolling has an advantage over fly casting and have eliminated it on FFO water as a further protection of the resource. They have also ruled out lures ,live bait, worms, and other forms of angling because they would also add pressure to a what they consider a fragile resource or pond. The fact that trolling is illegal on FFO water tells me that authorities believe it adds another pressure to the pond. They seem to think it has an advantage over fly casting and have held this belief since Quimby pond in the late 1800s. I think I'll side with them.


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